Relaxed vs raised shoulder?

[tim913]

A man is buying a very inexpensive suit but notices the left arm is much longer than the right and the right leg is too short. The salesman advises him to raise his left shoulder to tuck the lapel under his chin and to keep his right knee bent while walking.
The man buys the suit and limps out of the store, crooked and uncomfortable. Two doctors passing by see him, and one says, "Good heavens, look at that poor handicapped fellow". The other doctor replies, "Yeah, but doesn't that suit fit great?".

 

[7stud]

youtube.com/live/G0u-5VvcOPw?si=tBfme8a2shgOqzrb&t=28778

From here, there are is about 3.5 minutes of me shooting starting with ball in hand. I keep looking back at my elbow/shoulder a lot and I know that's a bad habit, but I've been obsessed with trying to eliminate my chicken wing.

Which table are you playing on and what color shirt are you wearing?

 

[Lowell]

Which table are you playing on and what color shirt are you wearing?

The rightmost table, with the plaid shirt and the green cue

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think developing more flow/tempo in your game is far more important than worrying about your shoulder. Also, work on a nice smooth stroke. Your miss on the 8 ball at 8:02:00 is a poke rather than a stroke.

 

[Lowell]

I think developing more flow/tempo in your game is far more important than worrying about your shoulder. Also, work on a nice smooth stroke. Your miss on the 8 ball at 8:02:00 is a poke rather than a stroke.

I have a tendency to poke more on low/center ball shots for some reason, I really have to work on that

 

[Baize]

@Lowell Are you talking about what Dr. Dave refers to as "locking and loading" the shoulder in this video?

 

[straightline]

I didn't notice any shoulder anomalies. I like the 8ball shot. Did the other guy argue about it?

 

[7stud]

You hold the butt of your cue too far back. At CB address, your forearm should form a 90 degree angle with the cue/floor. What you are doing is holding your cue further back, then your stroke finishes with your forearm 90 degrees to the cue.

Try this...put an OB 2 feet from the pocket, and put the CB two feet from the OB, so that you have a straight in shot. Move your butt hand closer to the joint of the cue and practice pulling the cue back slowly, pause, then gently swing through the CB so that your butt hand hits your chest on the follow through. That will turn a poke into a stroke.

Watch your opponent in the video. He starts with a good 90 forearm angle with the cue, and he follows through past that 90 degree point, unfortunately he drops his elbow so badly that his butt hand finishes below his belt. If you don't drop your elbow, your hand will naturally swing up into your chest.

There are instructors who teach that how hard you hit the cue ball should be determined solely by the length of your backswing--with nothing else about the swing changing. Personally, I find that on really slow speed shots, I have better touch if I don't hit my chest with my butt hand, but on shots in the range from the upper end of slow speed <---> fast speed, I try to swing the same and just change the length of my backswing.

 

[Lowell]

I didn't notice any shoulder anomalies. I like the 8ball shot. Did the other guy argue about it?

Thank you, those kinds of shots are very satisfying IMO.

He's a strong APA 7 (who likely went a little easy on me so I'd have some footage to share) and had no problem with it.

 

[Lowell]

You hold the butt of your cue too far back. At CB address, your forearm should form a 90 degree angle with the cue/floor. What you are doing is holding your cue further back, then your stroke finishes with your forearm 90 degrees to the cue.

Try this...put an OB 2 feet from the pocket, and put the CB two feet from the OB, so that you have a straight in shot. Move your butt hand closer to the joint of the cue and practice pulling the cue back slowly, pause, then gently swing through the CB so that your butt hand hits your chest on the follow through. That will turn a poke into a stroke.

Watch your opponent in the video. He starts with a good 90 forearm angle with the cue, and he follows through past that 90 degree point, unfortunately he drops his elbow so badly that his butt hand finishes below his belt. If you don't drop your elbow, your hand will naturally swing up into your chest.

There are instructors who teach that how hard you hit the cue ball should be determined solely by the length of your backswing--with nothing else about the swing changing. Personally, I find that on really slow speed shots, I have better touch if I don't hit my chest with my butt hand, but on shots in the range from the upper end of slow speed <---> fast speed, I try to swing the same and just change the length of my backswing.

In regards to my butt hand being too far back, is my bridge length off or am I okay using the same bridge length while trying to keep my forearm closer to 90 degrees?

And I like the idea of only using backswing length to determine shot speed, unless it's like a very soft touch safety like you mention. I have a semi conscious tendency to grip the cue harder on faster shots (particularly draw shots) and I have to work on not doing that.

 

[Lowell]

@Lowell Are you talking about what Dr. Dave refers to as "locking and loading" the shoulder in this video?

Yes, that's a similar concept but I was making a more exaggerated effort to keep the shoulder behind my head.

 

[Frosty]

Well, there are those that say you need perfect mechanics to play well. Then again there’s a lot of great players that have quirks or flaws in their mechanics, solid proof that if you play 6,8,10 hours a day you can make anything work.

As mentioned in a previous post, it’s finding something that you can produce repeatedly, the same every time, and be comfortable doing it. That’s what this game is all about, repeatability.

You mention having “your chin right over the cue” being a “good habit”, according to who? I mean, there’s a shit ton of instructors that are of the belief the “SPF” method they teach as the be all, end all, “proper way”. I personally don’t understand how a stroke can be fluid with a pause introduced into it, it seems diametrically opposed IMO.

Everyone’s different, I have a very upright stance, one feather stroke and then I’m at the ball, and I’ve been told I can dab it pretty good. My point is, phrases you used in your OP, “most good players” do this or that is fallacy to a point. Most good players have a repeatable stroke, stay down, and get through the shot fully. Eddie Taylor used to say “be true and follow through”.

 

[7stud]

In regards to my butt hand being too far back, is my bridge length off or am I okay using the same bridge length while trying to keep my forearm closer to 90 degrees?

In "Play Great Pool", Mark Wilson suggests a 10-11" bridge length for medium paced shots, shorter for softer shots, and longer for shots where you need more tip speed/cue ball speed. You use an open bridge, so I think that would be measured from the V of your thumb and forefinger to the edge of the CB. If you practice the drill that I mentioned, you can put the cue ball on a donut sticky, then use a sheet of 8 1/2 X 11 paper to measure from the edge of the cue ball back towards you, then put another sticky at 10-11" ( put that sticky a little more than a hands width off to the right of the shot line. Then you can step into the shot and slide your bridge hand towards the cue ball until the V in your open bridge is even with the sticky.

And I like the idea of only using backswing length to determine shot speed, unless it's like a very soft touch safety like you mention. I have a semi conscious tendency to grip the cue harder on faster shots (particularly draw shots) and I have to work on not doing that.

Yeah, that's a life long thing you need to practice. A drill that I do is to put an OB 3-4' from the pocket and the CB 3-4' from the OB on the diagonal of the table so that I have a straight in shot into the corner pocket. I leave enough room near the corner pocket where I am bridging so that I can bridge with a long bridge length to the CB. Then I swing and hit the cue ball as hard as I can. I'll hit about 20 shots, and as I proceed with the drill I'll concentrate on being smooth and not jerking the cue nor gripping the cue too tight. My make % isn't good, but boy does that develop smooth power. When you only need 3/4 of your max power, it will feel much easier.

 

[7stud]

I personally don’t understand how a stroke can be fluid with a pause introduced into it, it seems diametrically opposed IMO.

Watch Bai Yulu's stroke:

Smoooth as silk.

 

[Lowell]

Well, there are those that say you need perfect mechanics to play well. Then again there’s a lot of great players that have quirks or flaws in their mechanics, solid proof that if you play 6,8,10 hours a day you can make anything work.

As mentioned in a previous post, it’s finding something that you can produce repeatedly, the same every time, and be comfortable doing it. That’s what this game is all about, repeatability.

You mention having “your chin right over the cue” being a “good habit”, according to who? I mean, there’s a shit ton of instructors that are of the belief the “SPF” method they teach as the be all, end all, “proper way”. I personally don’t understand how a stroke can be fluid with a pause introduced into it, it seems diametrically opposed IMO.

Everyone’s different, I have a very upright stance, one feather stroke and then I’m at the ball, and I’ve been told I can dab it pretty good. My point is, phrases you used in your OP, “most good players” do this or that is fallacy to a point. Most good players have a repeatable stroke, stay down, and get through the shot fully. Eddie Taylor used to say “be true and follow through”.

I like having my chin over the cue because it gives me the most ideal sight line in my experience