the saudi WC seems highly unlikely at this point
WNT, WPA and 2026
- Thread starter jbart65
- Start date
Pool isn't dead, it's just taking a little nappy nap
Maybe, but I doubt the WPC won't be held at all. You'd think the Saudis would let it be moved if necessary. Guess we will know soon enough.
I know lots of people want to pile on Matchroom. Its made plenty of errors while the Predator Billiard Series has greatly improved.
Yet Predator alone can't provide enough money for pool pros. Predator only has eight events all year, and not all have big payouts like the ones in Vegas and St. Louis.
If Matchroom killed the WNT and got out of the pool business, you'd figure it would sell the rights to the US Open, WPC and Mosconi. Predator would be the likely acquirer.
I don't expect that to happen, but the crux of the matter is the same. There just doesn't seem to be enough money in pool.
Pool players want better. I get it. Predator has certainly upped its game. But aside from flashy prizes for tournament winners, Predator payouts for the rest of the field are as skimpy as the WNT tournaments.
Only a few players are really making any serious money via tournaments (outside of China.) If we look at the past year, the list would include just Biado, Yapp, Gorst, Filler, SVB, FSR and Neuhausen.
Another dozen or so appear to rake in $100,000 or so before expenses if WNT and PBS events are combined.
Yet Predator alone can't provide enough money for pool pros. Predator only has eight events all year, and not all have big payouts like the ones in Vegas and St. Louis.
If Matchroom killed the WNT and got out of the pool business, you'd figure it would sell the rights to the US Open, WPC and Mosconi. Predator would be the likely acquirer.
I don't expect that to happen, but the crux of the matter is the same. There just doesn't seem to be enough money in pool.
Pool players want better. I get it. Predator has certainly upped its game. But aside from flashy prizes for tournament winners, Predator payouts for the rest of the field are as skimpy as the WNT tournaments.
Only a few players are really making any serious money via tournaments (outside of China.) If we look at the past year, the list would include just Biado, Yapp, Gorst, Filler, SVB, FSR and Neuhausen.
Another dozen or so appear to rake in $100,000 or so before expenses if WNT and PBS events are combined.
i'm surprised they even have 8 pro men's events. is that counting the eurotour or something?
Events | Pro Billiard Series
Check out the schedule for upcoming Pro Billiard Series events, including dates, locations, tournaments, prize money and more details.
probilliardseries.com
Last year, Predator had six men's events aside from the Euro Tour. This year it has eight.
Predator's two biggest events are the 8-ball and 10-ball World Championships. They are also the only two that pay pretty decent money.
In 2025, none of the other four Predator men's opens paid the winner more than $37,500.
This year, Predator raise the top prize in Vegas to $45,000 from $37,500 in 2025.
The men's 8 ball world championship in St Louis had a top prize of $90,000, up from $70,000 a year ago.
Its events are all top heavy too in terms of payouts.
The Predator events are losing lots of money.
If anyone thinks they are sustainable then they are living in clown cuckoo land.
It annoys me when Molina Mike and Panozzo talk about the Predator events like they are the best thing since sliced bread.
Only 1 event in pool makes any serious money and that is the Mosconi Cup.
If anyone thinks they are sustainable then they are living in clown cuckoo land.
It annoys me when Molina Mike and Panozzo talk about the Predator events like they are the best thing since sliced bread.
Only 1 event in pool makes any serious money and that is the Mosconi Cup.
With the stories about LIV Golf on life support coming out last week, the theme of many of these articles is that the Saudi PIF has been divesting from sports in recent months and scaling back (sold their interest in a soccer team and some other stuff). I know that pool is a drop in the bucket for them but that's still a million dollar prize fund every year plus operating costs.
I like Shaw and Grabe a lot and think the world of them as players, but ...
... in the end, what any of the men think an event ought to pay is of no import. Equally true is that what I think an event should pay is of no import.
Producers of men's events must pay out to the extent that revenues allow, and if they pay amounts that are irreconcilable with revenue (as the 2006 IPT did), their events will fall off the map quickly enough. Each male pro can determine the payouts prior to making each participation decision and must evaluate when/whether their participation is justified.
Whether smaller events offer Matchroom ranking points has almost no impact on stars of the game like Shaw, who can qualify for the Mosconi with or without these events. These events are, to a greater extent, for those either a) hoping to climb the ladder by earning ranking points without having to do much travel, or b) strengthening their case for Mosconi Cup inclusion.
I'd like to see the men earn more, but they're not likely to strongarm event producers into raising prize funds unless they are able to help them to build a revenue stream that justifies increased prize funds. If they are unable to do so, then they make such revenue growth far less likely and hurt their own prospects.
At this point, we know that Shaw, SVB, Fedor and Josh all skipped the PLP event in favor of the Las Vegas Open, and SVB and Shaw did not play in the European Open, either. If this is the beginning of a decline in loyalty to WNT events among the game's most recognizable players, and we do not yet know whether this is the case, the revenue growth needed for prize money increases will not be realized and, ultimately, what they are paying over at the Predator PBS is irrelevant, for that tour, over time, will be similarly constrained by the revenue it generates. Here in America, we have already seen Predator walk away from the US Pro Billiard Series, so there is precedent for the presumption that Predator would discontinue the new tour if the finances don't add up.
Right now, men's pro pool needs both the WNT and the Predator PBS and earnings opportunities will be plentiful for the pro players as long as both survive. At least for now, there is little evidence that many male pro players can make a solid living if one of these goes away.
Hence, I think it's a bad time in the history of our sport for top male pros to be publicly denouncing the organizations that are giving them a chance to earn a living. To me, that is biting the hand that feeds you.
... in the end, what any of the men think an event ought to pay is of no import. Equally true is that what I think an event should pay is of no import.
Producers of men's events must pay out to the extent that revenues allow, and if they pay amounts that are irreconcilable with revenue (as the 2006 IPT did), their events will fall off the map quickly enough. Each male pro can determine the payouts prior to making each participation decision and must evaluate when/whether their participation is justified.
Whether smaller events offer Matchroom ranking points has almost no impact on stars of the game like Shaw, who can qualify for the Mosconi with or without these events. These events are, to a greater extent, for those either a) hoping to climb the ladder by earning ranking points without having to do much travel, or b) strengthening their case for Mosconi Cup inclusion.
I'd like to see the men earn more, but they're not likely to strongarm event producers into raising prize funds unless they are able to help them to build a revenue stream that justifies increased prize funds. If they are unable to do so, then they make such revenue growth far less likely and hurt their own prospects.
At this point, we know that Shaw, SVB, Fedor and Josh all skipped the PLP event in favor of the Las Vegas Open, and SVB and Shaw did not play in the European Open, either. If this is the beginning of a decline in loyalty to WNT events among the game's most recognizable players, and we do not yet know whether this is the case, the revenue growth needed for prize money increases will not be realized and, ultimately, what they are paying over at the Predator PBS is irrelevant, for that tour, over time, will be similarly constrained by the revenue it generates. Here in America, we have already seen Predator walk away from the US Pro Billiard Series, so there is precedent for the presumption that Predator would discontinue the new tour if the finances don't add up.
Right now, men's pro pool needs both the WNT and the Predator PBS and earnings opportunities will be plentiful for the pro players as long as both survive. At least for now, there is little evidence that many male pro players can make a solid living if one of these goes away.
Hence, I think it's a bad time in the history of our sport for top male pros to be publicly denouncing the organizations that are giving them a chance to earn a living. To me, that is biting the hand that feeds you.
Last edited:
Badpenguin
Well-known member
That tour no longer exists. You are probably confusing it with the current (and inaugural) edition of the Predator Pro Billiard Series, which is International and, in 2026, includes tour stops in Austria, Vietnam, Italy and Indonesia.
The US Pro Billiard Series was an American series of 10ball events. Among the events on that tour, which disappeared after the 2023 pool year, were the Michigan Open and the Wisconsin Open. Part of the problem with that tour was that the level of participation among the elite American players was a big disappointment.
Last edited:
Badpenguin
Well-known member
Was it a success, for Predator, financially? How would anyone know that?
I enjoy watching the PBS, much more than WNT events, particularly now that they have added all of the doubles, women, and junior events. Way more bang for your buck. WNT events, quite frankly, all literally look the same, and you can't watch them for free. I can't even pay to watch them without using their half-baked video streaming service. I cancelled my subscription and gave up on WNT streaming a few months ago.
I'm glad that WNT is doing more regional qualifier events for the "little folk". But I disagree with anyone who says that those events should match the equipment standards. The WNT equipment standards need to match these regional events instead, and stop trying to be snooker or chinese 8-ball, it is ridiculous and is not American pool. I want to see Pros being entertaining, taking chances, not playing like they are undergoing a medical procedure.
MM has become insufferable, I can't even listen to that podcast any more. The hubris is a huge no for me, and he constantly just runs over whatever Pannozo tries to say. He is the personification of facebook, all bluster.
I think a better example of the short sets is the Ultimate Pool events. They also have a nice mix of open, woman, doubles, and junior tournaments. And like Predator, they have an association with Leagues, which gives amateur players a pathway.
WNT offers no such pathway and captive market. Most professional sports have pathways from childhood on for amateurs, I don't know how Matchroom thinks they are going to foster their own market like Predator and UPL. WNT may think that the Asian market is hot for pool, but they don't have the spending power of the US and European amateur pool players.
99.9% no WPC this year. WPC is package deal with Saudi Arabia Snooker Masters (which is in jeopardy after venue change last year. There is chatter of Saudi shoving it to Qatar). Saudi PIF scaling down on LIV so same thing with pool snooker deal. Even though MR WNT signed 10 year deal there is usually an escape clause to back out in event of financial issues.
If backroom high level between Saudi and Qatar really agree on move to Qatar, it means shockingly WPC circles back into arms of Qatar (QBSF) while MR lose their biggest prizemoney WPC
i don't think it will matter a great deal who the promoter is, we will see lesser fields this year from here on. get used to it.
airfare has already increased and will increase much further. lufthansa announced yesterday that they are cancelling 20 000 flights until october, and that "that's just the beginning". KLM will follow with similar measures, apparently.
airfare has already increased and will increase much further. lufthansa announced yesterday that they are cancelling 20 000 flights until october, and that "that's just the beginning". KLM will follow with similar measures, apparently.
Badpenguin
Well-known member
Oh, there are some really, really bad times coming. Even the US is not immune since we can't refine most of our own crude. If anyone thinks that things are going to remain business as usual, enjoy the delusion while you can.
for jet fuel europe and east asia are facing an imminent shortage, whereas US airlines won't suffer the same supply disruptions. of course the prices will still be as high in US because it's a global commodity. so while it will be expensive for all travelling pro players, the euros and asians may not even be able to get off the ground.