Fargo doesn't account for performance in big events and pressure.
If there was a Fargo system in the NFL, Josh Allen would be rated higher than Patrick Mahomes.
UK Open 2026, London, May 26-31
- Thread starter Bob Jewett
- Start date
Fargo doesn't account for performance in big events and pressure.
If there was a Fargo system in the NFL, Josh Allen would be rated higher than Patrick Mahomes.
that's true, but you also can't cherrypick tournaments and years. josh has won world championships (9b, 8b, plus finalist in 10b), and won the US open too. the amount of tournaments he's won is crazy given his age and the level of competition.
it seems TPA is out of vogue these days but every year now filler plays flawless matches. his high gear is as jay says higher than the others. that's no dig on fedor because he's incredible too. we're seeing pool at a level i never thought we would see
HaveFunGuys
New member
Hi everyone, can someone explain why a brand's table is "better" than another's one? (or "easier/harder"?)
uk_9_ball_convert
Active member
Different pocket sizes and shapes make potting balls harder/easier. Speed of the cloth can make a big difference (though at pro level I think all tournaments will have pretty fast cloth no matter the brand). Ball can bounce of cushions/rails different on different brands.
Personally think a good player is a good player on any table, but tighter pockets will allow the most accurate players to have an advantage and slower cloth might give someone with more cue power an advantage.
Though this tournament was organised by Matchroom who use Rasson tables, so not sure why the person you were responding to was talking about goofy Predator tables.
And Filler has had plenty of success at the Derby which uses Diamonds. So I don't really agree with MarkJames viewpoint at all.
It's not at all statistically clear. A difference of 13 is way way waaaay below the swing point for a handicap in pretty much any race length. Filler's fargo margins verses Gorst are so slim that it makes no difference.
It does. It accounts for everything. That's how it works.
UK open, US open and European open use diamond tables
No other company has (or had) the ability to install and level 30 tables as quickly as Diamond can. The single-piece slate makes that possible. Prior to Diamond tables at tournaments, you had to worry more about rolls.
It's not that small. With a 13 point difference, a 10-11 match would be fair. For a longer race, a fair race would be something like 43-47.
And it seems it is very hard to move your rating at highest level. I feel every point is bigger than 600+ or 700+
uk_9_ball_convert
Active member
I always just associated Matchroom with Rasson, but just looked back at highlights of UK Open and realised it was Diamond tables and their announcement of Rasson as their table partner says it's for single table events. TIL
I think Matchroom used to use Brunswick tables, back when Brunswick was doing significant pool sponsorship. I think Diamond was next, but I'm not sure about the transition. I see that the 2015 Mosconi Cup was on Diamond and the 2016 Cup was on Rasson.
I believe Rasson started making pool tables around 2016 -- they are a large slate producer -- and one of the first tournaments they sponsored was the 14.1 tournament at Steinway in NYC in September, 2016. At that tournament, the TV table was changed from Brunswick to Rasson in the middle of the tournament. See the stats from @AtLarge for some details.
Matchroom has used Diamond for all its many-table events for the reason stated above. Their first large event was the US Open in 2019 at Mandalay Bay, which I think had 33 tables.
I've heard that other table brands are working on single-piece slate, but I imagine there's a learning curve, like opening the 40-foot shipping container which arrived a little late and finding five slates broken.
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bpeacock
Well-known member
I know what you mean... I have been trying for years to get over 500And it seems it is very hard to move your rating at highest level. I feel every point is bigger than 600+ or 700+
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The 11-10 expected result (i.e the most likely of all outcomes - although 11-9 and 10-11 would also be likely) only kicks in at a difference of 15 fargo points. 11-11 is still a fair race with a 13 point difference.
Fedor said on his podcast that Filler only wants to play 9ball. So I don't think that match is going to happen. It would probably be the biggest match of this era though. If Fedor doesn't want to play 9ball, one could assume he doesn't want the smoke with Filler. If Filler doesn't want to play 10ball, one could assume he doesn't want the smoke with Fedor. It's a lose lose.
All I know is Fedor will never agree to play a big money match against Filler in 9ball, because he would be stepping in Filler's domain. There's a higher chance of Filler agreeing to play Fedor in 10ball because he actually has balls and the confidence to do so. It's been proven that Filler is dominating 9ball, it has not been proven that Fedor is dominating 10ball.
bonus ball used a rasson table. unsure of year but defo before 2016. maybe 2013?
Not according to the official FargoRate app
Interesting. On the webpage it's 11-11 up to a 14 point difference. Anyway, it's somewhere round about 52-48% so one of us is right and the other is almost right.... but I'm guessing the app is more up with things.
13 points is still a small difference though. I can't see anyone giving weight if the most likely expected outcome is 47-43.
According to the Fargorate odds calculator, an even race to 11 for two players 13 FR points apart favors the better player by 58% to 42%. While that's not horrible odds for the underdog, I'd bet on the other guy.