At what would you question “non obvious” call pocketing?

K

Kjackxon

Active member
Edit: Sorry about the title goof 🤔
The game is 8 ball call shot using standard rules. Obvious clear path shots need not to be called. Obstructed shots, banks, carom, and combinations must be (ball and pocket) called.

Backstory:
I’m in a match with an opponent, who gets upset when I asked what pocket he’s playing. He doesn’t call or point out his pockets, and typically assumes that I already know where he is shooting.
In this case, my opponent is shooting the 10 ball into the corner pocket. The 15 ball is partially blocking the 10 ball. He calls out “10 ball”, at which point I ask which pocket. He tells me the corner pocket, then proceeds to completely miss the 10 ball. The cue ball caroms off the 15, then nudges the 10 ball into the pocket.

I asked him “Did you intentionally combo the 10 ball?” He replied “I call my ball and pocket - doesn’t matter how it got there.”
I didn’t argue, and I didn’t call him off the shot when he answered my first question. It does bring up a point. Was I justified to have called the foul as he did not specify the combo? I know he call the ball and pocket. It’s just that the shot wasn’t obvious. When I miss my called ball, it’s ball in hand to my opponent no question. I typically will ask after a questionable shot the shooter’s intent. and yield to the shooter.

This shot was so close to slop, that I had to ask him before he shot.
Edit: I know that calling someone over would have kept this from escalating. I don’t like playing with people who look for controversy. Do I need to carry a rule book to matches?
chao
 
Ball in pocket. As long as he hit one of his balls first, how it gets into that pocket is irrelevant.

It's also worth noting that in a lot of cases you'll know the intended pocket simply by the manner/speed with which it's shot...

Having said that, if he's constantly not calling his pocket on shots that you don't consider "obvious", you have every right to ask.
 
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David in FL said:
Ball in pocket. As long as he hit one of his balls first, how it gets into that pocket is irrelevant.

It's also worth noting that in a lot of cases you'll know the intended pocket simply by the manner/speed with which it's shot...

Having said that, if he's constantly not calling his pocket on shots that you don't consider "obvious", you have every right to ask.
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Yep, callin all the kisses/combo's/carom's gets into the realm of 'bullshit biker bar rules'.
 
I agree with Dave and garczar, but don't be afraid to ask first if its not obvious to you. Thw other player shouldn't be upset at you asking unless it gets carried away at obvious shots. In league you get to know the players and their abilities.
The good players in our leagues, 600+ fargo, are very honest about it and will let you know if they miss or foul, there is a couple 450 and below fargo that you have to question first at times.
 
The question is very strange. I wonder what rules the OP is playing.

If playing WPA/BCA/VNEA rules, calling the ball and pocket is sufficient. Details of how it gets there are irrelevant. The object ball can fluke off 7 other balls and as long as it goes in the called pocket it’s a good shot.

Also, “missing your called ball” is never ball in hand (unless you don’t actually make a legal shot) - “missing the shot” isn’t a foul.

I would suggest the OP read the WPA rules.

 
muskyed said:
I agree with Dave and garczar, but don't be afraid to ask first if its not obvious to you. Thw other player shouldn't be upset at you asking unless it gets carried away at obvious shots. In league you get to know the players and their abilities.
The good players in our leagues, 600+ fargo, are very honest about it and will let you know if they miss or foul, there is a couple 450 and below fargo that you have to question first at times.
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I’m get it that you call the pocket and the ball. I’m not concerned about kisses, carom, and banks, as long as it’s clear of the intent. From my view there was an obstruction blocking his ball, and he didn’t call the combination. He called the 10 ball, and missed it. I’m certain that there’s a rule or opinion on combinations, and when you should call one. I questioned that before he took the shot.
 
GideonF said:
The question is very strange. I wonder what rules the OP is playing.

If playing WPA/BCA/VNEA rules, calling the ball and pocket is sufficient. Details of how it gets there are irrelevant. The object ball can fluke off 7 other balls and as long as it goes in the called pocket it’s a good shot.

Also, “missing your called ball” is never ball in hand (unless you don’t actually make a legal shot) - “missing the shot” isn’t a foul.

I would suggest the OP read the WPA rules.

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Thanks for your reply. At what point do you call a combination?
 
garczar said:
Yep, callin all the kisses/combo's/carom's gets into the realm of 'bullshit biker bar rules'.
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I’ve already addressed that. This was an obstructed ball, requiring either a combo, or him clearing the obstruction. It’s not a matter of where the ball was pocketed. I’m not remotely speaking of SLOP.
 
GideonF said:
The question is very strange. I wonder what rules the OP is playing.

If playing WPA/BCA/VNEA rules, calling the ball and pocket is sufficient. Details of how it gets there are irrelevant. The object ball can fluke off 7 other balls and as long as it goes in the called pocket it’s a good shot.

Also, “missing your called ball” is never ball in hand (unless you don’t actually make a legal shot) - “missing the shot” isn’t a foul.

I would suggest the OP read the WPA rules.

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We’re talking about combo shots, which he should have called, and why I’d asked the initial question.
 
muskyed said:
will let you know
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Development of the habit of verbally reinforced for My subconscious. Just say it er uh comment tater it. 🤷‍♂️ helps with my rhythm as well. 🤷‍♂️
My favorite archival memory has my opponent saying, "you didn't call it." As a sniveling at the handshake regarding a straight in 8 ball. My reply was along the line of, "so when I rounded the table and put my hand in the pocket, up to my elbow and said, 'right here' " YOU didn't Hear????
 
Development of a good habit is my theory. When I have had an opponent say, "you don't have to call those." My reply would be, "I am not calling it for you, just convincing myself. 🤷‍♂️ 😉 "
 
gregcantrall said:
Development of a good habit is my theory. When I have had an opponent say, "you don't have to call those." My reply would be, "I am not calling it for you, just convincing myself. 🤷‍♂️ 😉 "
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This!
I ask to avoid controversial discussion. I won’t interrupt when he’s down on his shot. I’ve repeatedly stepped away from a shot to repeat something that my opponent missed.
He didn’t call the combo and missed the ball. I don’t need to guess intent.
 
Always say if you’re not gonna shoot a bank, a combination or a car or an extreme back cut there’s no reason to call it. If it’s not one of those shots, then it’s pretty obvious, but they were shooting
 
Magictrat007 said:
Always say if you’re not gonna shoot a bank, a combination or a car or an extreme back cut there’s no reason to call it. If it’s not one of those shots, then it’s pretty obvious, but they were shooting
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Any questionable shot, out of conscience, I call it out to myself. If I see one, I ask for clarification. Please don’t get upset with getting up to see if you’re locked up.
 
Quit 8 ball and play 9 ball. Then you won’t have to deal with nitty shit. Ps in this case you are the nit. You only call the ball and pocket. As long as the hit is legal the rest doesn’t matter.

The player was right in calling the 10 in the corner since it was not obvious. But he doesn’t have to specify if it goes in on a combo or a carom or straight in.
 
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