Does top spin and bottom spin affect the cue ball's path after hitting a cushion?

M

macbookmike

New member
I understand that using top and bottom will change the path of the cue ball after hitting the object ball. But what about after it hits a rail? I think the common saying is that, without sidespin, angle in equals angle out. But does having a lot of top spin or bottom spin on the cue ball when it hits the rail affect its path after it comes off said rail?

I know that using bottom / top on kick shots will shorten or lengthen the kick but I haven't noticed that the top/bottom affects the cue ball after it hits a rail after shooting at an object ball.

Here's an example shot where if I shoot with maximum high, it seems the angle in really equals angle out without the top spin affecting the cue ball after rail contact. https://www.chalkysticks.com/diagram/CF244cY.png

So why is it so apparent on kick shots but not on shots where you hit an object ball?
 

Attachments

  • chalkysticks.png
    chalkysticks.png
    67.2 KB · Views: 11
macbookmike said:
I understand that using top and bottom will change the path of the cue ball after hitting the object ball. But what about after it hits a rail? I think the common saying is that, without sidespin, angle in equals angle out. But does having a lot of top spin or bottom spin on the cue ball when it hits the rail affect its path after it comes off said rail?

I know that using bottom / top on kick shots will shorten or lengthen the kick but I haven't noticed that the top/bottom affects the cue ball after it hits a rail after shooting at an object ball.

Here's an example shot where if I shoot with maximum high, it seems the angle in really equals angle out without the top spin affecting the cue ball after rail contact. https://www.chalkysticks.com/diagram/CF244cY.png

So why is it so apparent on kick shots but not on shots where you hit an object ball?
Click to expand...

There's a lot more to it but the simple answer is that draw and follow cause the CB to curve "after" it hits something. Your diagram shows that. On kicks the curve occurs "after" hitting the rail which results in shortening or lengthening. The CB only curves once, it's just a matter of when and where.
 
Picture a spinning ball striking a rail in super‑slow motion. If you imagine the ball “grinding” into the cloth in that direction, you can anticipate the CB’s response as the cushion "pushes back" against the spin.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I understand that the cue ball path changes after striking the object ball. But let’s say I still have a lot of top spin or a lot of bottom spin after the cue ball has contacted the object ball and then it hits a rail. Does the vertical spin affect the cue ball path off the rail?

I ask this because I see the vertical spin effects very easily when I kick the cue ball (hitting the cue ball directly into the cushion without the cue ball hitting an object ball first). But when I shoot a shot as mentioned above I can’t tell if the top/bottom is really doing anything to the cue ball when it hits the rail
 
sparkle84 said:
There's a lot more to it but the simple answer is that draw and follow cause the CB to curve "after" it hits something. Your diagram shows that. On kicks the curve occurs "after" hitting the rail which results in shortening or lengthening. The CB only curves once, it's just a matter of when and where.
Click to expand...
Why would the cue ball only curve once though?

Also scenario I thought of… suppose you hit the cue ball into an object ball with a lot of top spin and a lot of speed. Let’s say the cue ball hits the object ball and follows the tangent line because of the speed and it hits a rail before any curve happens. Would the cue ball then still curve after coming off the rail?
 
Top/bottom spin on the CB has the greatest path-curving effect when the CB hits the rail at a 45-degree angle (because its spin is perpendicular to its direction of travel after rebounding). An angle into the rail that's steeper or shallower than 45 degrees means less curve.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Usually, yes. It's reduced by friction with the table surface and by contact with balls/rails.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
I see, thanks for answering all these questions. I have one more.. if the cue ball hit the object ball at a very thin cut with a lot of vertical spin, then the curve will likely happen after it contacts a rail right?
 
macbookmike said:
I see, thanks for answering all these questions. I have one more.. if the cue ball hit the object ball at a very thin cut with a lot of vertical spin, then the curve will likely happen after it contacts a rail right?
Click to expand...
Yes, any curve from the thin-cut tangent line (almost parallel with the original shot line) will likely be too small to see.

pj
chgo
 
macbookmike said:
Why would the cue ball only curve once though?
Click to expand...

See PJ's response above. Post 10.
macbookmike said:
Also scenario I thought of… suppose you hit the cue ball into an object ball with a lot of top spin and a lot of speed. Let’s say the cue ball hits the object ball and follows the tangent line because of the speed and it hits a rail before any curve happens. Would the cue ball then still curve after coming off the rail?
Click to expand...
Yes. Something beginners, intermediate and even some 600+ players aren't aware of and/or don't use, is speed to manipulate angles and CB direction.
Also check dquarasr's thread of Aug. 2nd in this forum for more on this subject.

​

​

 
macbookmike said:
Ah so after the cue ball curves once from draw or follow, that “extra” spin from draw/follow is already gone?
Click to expand...
The normal state of the cue ball in motion is to be rolling smoothly on the cloth.

If the cue ball has spin that makes it curve, it is not rolling smoothly on the cloth. It will curve until it is rolling smoothly on the cloth.

While the cue ball is curving, that curve is a parabola.

There is no straight part of the path along the tangent line. The cue ball starts curving immediately after contact with an object ball.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbb
Bob Jewett said:
The normal state of the cue ball in motion is to be rolling smoothly on the cloth.

If the cue ball has spin that makes it curve, it is not rolling smoothly on the cloth. It will curve until it is rolling smoothly on the cloth.

While the cue ball is curving, that curve is a parabola.

There is no straight part of the path along the tangent line. The cue ball starts curving immediately after contact with an object ball.
Click to expand...
Given your expertise I always must defer to you in situations such as this. So that means I'm wrong when I say the CB only curves once.
 
sparkle84 said:
Given your expertise I always must defer to you in situations such as this. So that means I'm wrong when I say the CB only curves once.
Click to expand...
In general the cue ball will have some curve immediately after it hits any object. If you play a 3-cushion shot with follow off a ball, the cue ball will curve after it hits the object ball, and then it will curve after hitting each cushion. I think "the CB curves only once" is correct only if you have a lot of other explanation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbb
From what I've gathered from all the replies, the cue ball will curve after hitting the object ball and then curve after hitting a rail as well until it's rolling smoothly on the cloth.

So my idea of angle in = angle out in my first diagram is incorrect if the cue ball still has a lot of top spin when it hits the rail (not rolling smoothly)? Maybe I just can't tell but when I play shots like the one in my diagram it doesn't seem like the cue ball curves off the rail and it only curves after hitting the object ball. Is it possible for the curve off the rail to be so slight that it's hard to notice?

This is opposed as to when I kick the cue ball into a rail with spin and notice immediately that the cue ball curves
 
macbookmike said:
From what I've gathered from all the replies, the cue ball will curve after hitting the object ball and then curve after hitting a rail as well until it's rolling smoothly on the cloth.

So my idea of angle in = angle out in my first diagram is incorrect if the cue ball still has a lot of top spin when it hits the rail (not rolling smoothly)? Maybe I just can't tell but when I play shots like the one in my diagram it doesn't seem like the cue ball curves off the rail and it only curves after hitting the object ball. Is it possible for the curve off the rail to be so slight that it's hard to notice?

This is opposed as to when I kick the cue ball into a rail with spin and notice immediately that the cue ball curves
Click to expand...
Yes, the big looping action you see after the 1st contact is kind of the only curve you'll see without slow motion.
 
one situation maybe where the spin affects the rebound is when the object ball is very close to the rail
you hit it full with topspin
after ball contact and rail contact the cue ball can stop /bouce off and go back to the rail
not sure this situation is what you want since really the cue balls forward spin is what brings it back to the rail
 
Bob Jewett said:
In general the cue ball will have some curve immediately after it hits any object. If you play a 3-cushion shot with follow off a ball, the cue ball will curve after it hits the object ball, and then it will curve after hitting each cushion. I think "the CB curves only once" is correct only if you have a lot of other explanation.
Click to expand...
Yes, of course you're right. When I say it only curves once I'm referring to the big visible curve which can occur off the OB or off a rail, depending on speed and distance.
In general, I'm usually using this explanation in regards to a side of the rack breakshot in straight pool for purposes of scratch avoidance. When people say they scratch on certain shots when they use follow I tell them to use more speed. That ensures the big curve occurs after rack contact, not before, otherwise a scratch may be in play. Any subsequent curve is very small and very seldom plays a role in practical terms.

Yes bbb, that's a situation where the "big curve" occurs after rail, not ball, contact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbb
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top