Trump has a phenomenal stroke. My favorite cueist at the moment...
Judd Trump, Snooker Star Using BHE
- Thread starter Colin Colenso
- Start date
Swiping the CB with an open bridge by bringing the grip hand closer or farther away from the hip just before impacting the CB is different than hitting the same spot on the CB with a tight closed bridge with a straight stroke. a couple of posters have experienced this and find it useful.
Swipe, to me, is a small glancing blow to the contact spot on the CB. Perhaps this reduces the effective mass of the tip of the cue that is imparted at contact - like the effect of a LD shaft.
The swipe thus reduces the effects of CIT and allows the OB to travel closer to the geometrically correct cut angle.
Thanks Colin and be well.
Swipe, to me, is a small glancing blow to the contact spot on the CB. Perhaps this reduces the effective mass of the tip of the cue that is imparted at contact - like the effect of a LD shaft.
The swipe thus reduces the effects of CIT and allows the OB to travel closer to the geometrically correct cut angle.
Thanks Colin and be well.
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Colin,
I couldn't agree more. When I was working with FHE and BHE I found them very similar and FHE was easy for me to begin with so there is where I focused. If there is anything that held me back it was the desire to complete both methods by using no allowances. I felt of perfectly executed there might be no need but now I am beginning to think this is why I didn't favor BHE. For some reason I felt it was ok to use allowances with FHE because I knew well it had limitations and whenever stretched beyond them would require an allowance.
I will make sure to go back and repractice BHE allowing myself to perform allowances.
The allowance system that I have come up with for Parallel Applied English per shaft type seems to work fine for FHE but isn't needed at short distances or on shots played slowly. From what I remember I would guess that similar findings will be had with BHE in that short distance shots up to 2 diamonds of distance separation will need no allowance but beyond might be a slightly different story.
The obvious power of the spin generated by the sideswiping action is without question and you are right few people really know much about it. Thank you for the videos and for sharing.
Understanding vs the Mathematics
I don't understand the mathematics but I do understand that I was able to switch from a skinny to a 13 mm heavy shaft with a short taper and successfully play with it by using FHE which is my favorite of the moment without experiencing any additional difficulty potting balls.
I am a fan of Parallel Allowances when it comes juicing up the stroke but I suspect that is going to change some as I begin to apply allowances to BHE and yes they should be small allowances much like the ones you make with a Low Deflection Shaft....I would think so we will soon see.
I don't understand the mathematics but I do understand that I was able to switch from a skinny to a 13 mm heavy shaft with a short taper and successfully play with it by using FHE which is my favorite of the moment without experiencing any additional difficulty potting balls.
I am a fan of Parallel Allowances when it comes juicing up the stroke but I suspect that is going to change some as I begin to apply allowances to BHE and yes they should be small allowances much like the ones you make with a Low Deflection Shaft....I would think so we will soon see.
No, it's not - they're exactly the same in their effect on the CB.
People have "experienced" lots of things that didn't happen.
Sorry, it doesn't.
??
This wouldn't follow even if the previous statements were right.
pj
chgo
I must admit I'm pretty confused about what you're trying to say here LAMas.
To guess a little, I'm thinking you're talking about the tip having a forward component and a sideways swipe component.
PJ asked me some questions a while back which helped me understand this a bit more clearly, to the point that I generally believe that most attempts to swipe make negligible difference that pivoting to that offset and stroking straight achieves.
At low speeds the effect may be noticeable, such that it would be akin to shooting the shot with a shifted bridge, so kind of like adding some FHE to the shot.
e.g. I swipe left with the tip and hit the CB 3mm left of center, such that the tip is moving left of the line of the cue. Draw a line back from this tip direction at impact and it would point to an effective bridge right of the actual bridge.
At pace, I think this effect is negligible though. Also, I'm no longer of the opinion that more side can be obtained by swiping.
Cheers,
Colin
Robin,
A tip for when you go back to trialling BHE.
There are 2 possible ways to determine the adjustments.
The first is the most intuitive, but problematic imho. It's to determine the effective pivot point or sqwirve pivot point such that it allows for throw.
An example would be a soft inside english shot, say doubling the CB around a pocket with 3/4 ball cut. The throw will thicken the pot angle, but you aim as if there is no throw and use a longer pivot so that it squirts the CB wider for a thinner cut.
The other way to adjust is to change the initial aim, such that you're aligned to pot a thinner angle, hence pre-adjusting for the expected thickening throw.
Given the same shot described above, I would pivot from a shorter distance, but my initial aim is wider on the cut.
This aim adjustment method allows me always aim at the required contact point and helps to reinforce my feel for developing deeper knowledge of the required effective pivot point.
Colin
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Here's a diagram to help conceptualize the 2 adjustment methods I described in the post above.
I've had to exaggerate the angles so that the lines and points can be differentiated. In reality, for any given tip offset, the red stars, representing pivot points would be along the line of the cue when it contacts the CB.
I've had to exaggerate the angles so that the lines and points can be differentiated. In reality, for any given tip offset, the red stars, representing pivot points would be along the line of the cue when it contacts the CB.
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I looked at each of 3 frames using Expression Encoder and he moves his body and the butt of the cue to the side (his right) imparting a touch of outside low (draw) English on the CB (as you said) and not just the butt hand moving closer to his body..as I would have.
This can be seen in the blur of his white sleeve on his bridge hand. His thumb on his bridge hand is still upright at CB contact with the OB - no drop. After contact, he drops his thumb and the cue swings to the his left.
He could have used parallel English but he would not have been able to aim the center of the shaft where he decided to aim it at the start of the shot and his bridge would not be in the exact same location.
Thanks
Be well
Interesting Shot
Colin,
I will admit I haven't aimed that shot with Inside at the farthest part of the pocket letting the throw carry it to the center. Would work on a slow shot. Mostly I have been aiming to the side of the pocket nearest me and using mild cue ball squirt to thin the shot.
I will try this with BHE and a slow stroke, it definitely would be something I haven't been doing. Thank you.
Colin,
I will admit I haven't aimed that shot with Inside at the farthest part of the pocket letting the throw carry it to the center. Would work on a slow shot. Mostly I have been aiming to the side of the pocket nearest me and using mild cue ball squirt to thin the shot.
I will try this with BHE and a slow stroke, it definitely would be something I haven't been doing. Thank you.
Robin,
As you know, usually we play this type of shot firmer when using IE. In this situation we'd usually be playing it hard enough to reach the center of the table and beyond. In those cases, throw is pretty much the same with heavy IE as it is for topspin, so no adjustment is necessary.
I picked the slow shot as a way to explain one familiar situation where adjustments are necessary.
Colin
I reacted to the word "swipe" as a "strong sweeping blow <a swipe of a paw>".
" I must admit I'm pretty confused about what you're trying to say here LAMas.
To guess a little, I'm thinking you're talking about the tip having a forward component and a sideways swipe component."
Colin
Until I looked at the frame by frame. I thought that he made his cue tip "sweep" across the face CB by moving his back hand to the side and dropping his thumb to allow the shaft tip to move to the side at impact with the CB and out of the V of his bridge - like what would happen shooting one handed without a bridge hand.
So, I was mistaken and described a "glancing" form of "swipe" hit at the CB. He instead stroked his cue tip forward directly into the CB from the final tip location using BHE during the final stroke with no movement of his bridge.
I apply BHE from the stance and I aim normally at CB and move my butt and body to a new stance before stroking and shooting.
So...never mind,
Be well
I do it the same way as you LAMas! Judd cramps himself up... I think because he hasn't really realized what he is doing or how it works.
My perception of the frame by frame is the same as yours. Have to fill the gaps a bit, due to lack of frames, but looks like he basically does the pivot during his semi-pause on the backswing... seems the final stroke is pretty straight!
Colin
Here is something I once posted.
Here is an example where I believe the "dumbed down" thinking to be beneficial to scientific thinking.
Lets say you are learning to pocket balls using english.
To me the task seems much more manageable if you go into practice/playing with these simple principles.
1) If I cue the cueball off to the left then the objectball will go left of where I'm aiming and vice versa. Exception being close shots. (scientific reasoning being the close shots won't have time for much deflection and the spin will throw more than the deflection.)
2) The longer the shot the more principle 1 effect takes place
3) The harder the stroke the more principle 1 effect takes place. (up to a point, scientific reason being curve wont bring it back)
4) The farther I cue from center the more principle 1 effect takes place.
I need to remember these principles and adjust my feel as needed.
Now this to me seems easier and more manageable to get a feel for the conditions than knowing the exact cause... Deflection, curve, and throws and trying to practice knowing you have to adjust the formula for each shot. "Ok, Im going to stroke soft so it will deflect here and then start curving here, then collision induced throw will send it here, while spin induced throw will do this to the shot."
Nope, too much info. Just know the principles and get a feel imo.
I can align CCB, pivot to left of center and have the CB travel to the right of the original target, hence the OB goes left.
So even if you're just aligning traditionally for side, if you swipe to wider on the CB, if your bridge is long, the same can happen.
If you're just saying more side = more swerve then that's right.
If we're talking Induced Throw changing the OB angle, there are a lot of situations where more spin = less throw and when a little more increases throw but even more decreases it.
Colin
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Interesting Shot
I remembered to practice this shot the other night and actually had one come up in a game but I didn't realize it was one and caused me to get safe on myself. I was playing one pocket and the shot was close to the object ball and clearly lined up so that in order to pass the interfering ball it would go into the cushion. I decided to play the shot this way and leave my opponent safe. I played the shot the object ball passed the blocker and threw over into the pocket. I was thankful and mystified at the same time and then I remembered this scenario.
I remembered to practice this shot the other night and actually had one come up in a game but I didn't realize it was one and caused me to get safe on myself. I was playing one pocket and the shot was close to the object ball and clearly lined up so that in order to pass the interfering ball it would go into the cushion. I decided to play the shot this way and leave my opponent safe. I played the shot the object ball passed the blocker and threw over into the pocket. I was thankful and mystified at the same time and then I remembered this scenario.
From your color ins LAMas.... I'll do my best, from what I can interpret!
Originally Posted by Colin Colenso View Post
I can align CCB, pivot to left of center and have the CB travel to the right of the original target, hence the OB goes left. Because of squirt? Yes, but depending on the length of pivot.
So even if you're just aligning traditionally for side (parallel to the aim line?),[Combination of FHE and BHE ask known previously as parallel but almost never really parallel] if you swipe to wider on the CB (tip moves more to the side?) [???] , if your bridge is long, the same can happen.
If you're just saying more side = more swerve (the spinning CB travels in an arc) then that's right.[yes]
If we're talking Induced Throw (friction/gearing?) [friction btw CB and OB, gearing is one type] changing the OB angle, there are a lot of situations where more spin = less throw (less friction or less gear pressure) and when a little more (parallel English) increases throw but even more (swipe) decreases it.
Colin
[Hard to decifer just reading text in code... hope some answers helped... Colin]
Colin,
Thanks for the confirmation or....
Words get in the way.
It is held by some that only the mass of the front section (behind the tip) of the shaft is important and why LD shafts work - less mass.
I contend that moving the tip away from the CB during contact (at the same initial point on the CB) has the same effect as lowering the mass - and force vectors. This may be what happens with swipe rather than a direct straight stroke into the CB - a glancing blow like the duck hitting the airplane. :smile:
It follows that by moving the bridge hand further back, there is more exposed shaft allowing the longer exposed shaft, that is flexible, in front of the bridge to flex away more from the CB after the intitial/during contact - similar to swipe.
Back in the day, House cues that I used were 13mm diameter and I used swipe as a way to move the rock around the table. Later I sanded the shaft down to 11mm and didn't have to swipe as much to get the same effect. I now use a LD shaft - no more sanding.:smile:
Then there is using a loose closed bridge or an open bridge.
Be well.
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I've been using BHE since the mid '90's
A lot less force is required to send the QB where you want it to go.
Swiping the QB is a good thing. Try it, you'll like it.
Efren uses it, up, sideways and down.
John
A lot less force is required to send the QB where you want it to go.
Swiping the QB is a good thing. Try it, you'll like it.
Efren uses it, up, sideways and down.
John