English Transfer

[VVP]

On page 105 of his book, The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards, Dr. Dave states “If the cue ball has left English, the object ball will pick up a small amount of right spin.”

Seems to me that if the cue ball has left English [clockwise or right spin (top of ball looking from above)] it will impart anti-clockwise or LEFT spin on the object ball not right as per Dr. Dave.

Has this been ever discussed here and what’s the correct answer? Is there a slow motion video on this? Thanks!

 

[couldnthinkof01]

On page 105 of his book, The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards, Dr. Dave states “If the cue ball has left English, the object ball will pick up a small amount of right spin.”

Seems to me that if the cue ball has left English [clockwise or right spin (top of ball looking from above)] it will impart anti-clockwise or LEFT spin on the object ball not right as per Dr. Dave.

Has this been ever discussed here and what’s the correct answer? Is there a slow motion video on this? Thanks!

I think what he means is if you hit the cueball on the left side(spinning to the right) the object ball will act as though it was hit on the right side.( spinning to the left) Hope that makes sense.

 

[VVP]

I think what he means is if you hit the cueball on the left side(spinning to the right) the object ball will act as though it was hit on the right side.( spinning to the left) Hope that makes sense.

That makes sense to me.

 

[straightline]

However you look at it, it's a gearing effect. The spins will be opposite.

 

[MitchAlsup]

There are two things going on::

a) there is spin induced throw
b) there is spin transfer

Spin induced throw cause the OB to roll down a line that is askew by a few degrees to the line of centers between CB and OB.
Spin transfer is where the OB takes on a small percentage of the inverse of the spin of the CB. That percentage is about 30%.

Both effects are caused by a mismatch of surface speeds at the point of contact during contact.

 

[MattPoland]

It seems the question has been answered to satisfaction.

I applaud the OP for asking and seeking to learn.

I applaud the people that came to this thread offering explanations rather than mockery.

 

[VVP]

It seems the question has been answered to satisfaction.

I applaud the OP for asking and seeking to learn.

I applaud the people that came to this thread offering explanations rather than mockery.

Yes. Glad that it was answered in a "professional" manner. Thanks all.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... it will impart anti-clockwise or LEFT spin on the object ball ...

Anti-clockwise (counterclockwise in the US) rotation as viewed from above is the same as "right" side spin.
Clockwise rotation as viewed from above is the same as "left" side spin.
"Left" and "right" side spin are what you get when you hit the cue ball to the left and right of center, respectively.

In physics the direction of spin is given by the axis of spin, so side spin in billiards would be either up or down (along a vertical line through the ball). By convention, "right" side spin is up. Similarly, plain forward spin (follow) is on an axis pointing left for physicists (to the left as viewed by the shooter).

Right-hand rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[VVP]

"Left" and "right" side spin are what you get when you hit the cue ball to the left and right of center, respectively.

Okay, thanks, I see. Left English gives left spin (clockwise rotation).

 

[sparkle84]

One scenario where this technique is useful at times is with combinations when there's a short (1-3") distance between the 2 object balls.

 

[dr_dave]

On page 105 of his book, The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards, Dr. Dave states “If the cue ball has left English, the object ball will pick up a small amount of right spin.”

Seems to me that if the cue ball has left English [clockwise or right spin (top of ball looking from above)] it will impart anti-clockwise or LEFT spin on the object ball not right as per Dr. Dave.

Has this been ever discussed here and what’s the correct answer? Is there a slow motion video on this? Thanks!

FYI, clear video demonstrations can be found here:

spin transfer resource page

gearing spin resource page​

Enjoy!

 

[7stud]

Okay, thanks, I see. Left English gives left spin (clockwise rotation).

It's easy to figure out--it doesn't matter what you call it. Viewed from above, if the cue ball is spinning clockwise (which can be accomplished by hitting the cue ball on the left edge with the tip of your cue), the edge of the spinning cue ball that contacts the object ball will be moving to the right. That will cause the edge of the object ball also to move to the right. And, when the edge of the object ball moves to the right, that is counter clockwise spin on the object ball (which could also be accomplished by striking the object ball on the right side with the tip of your cue).

As for terminology, "left English" merely means that you strike the cue ball left of center. And, "right English" means you strike the cue ball right of center. So, this line:

If the cue ball has left English, the object ball will pick up a small amount of right spin.

might be clearer if it was written as:

If the cue ball has left English, the object ball will pick up a small amount of right English.

The most interesting thing about spin transfer to me is that the maximum transferred spin does not occur when you hit the cue ball with the maximum amount of side spin. You actually get more transferred spin with less spin on the cue ball: about 50% of maximum side spin. Proof here: https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/maximum/

 

[dr_dave]

FYI, clear video demonstrations can be found here:

spin transfer resource page

gearing spin resource page​

Enjoy!

The videos and info here might also be helpful:

Sidespin Tutorial​

 

[VVP]

might be clearer if it was written as:

Actually, this is exactly the way I wrote my note on the page, I think it's clearer.

If the cue ball has left English, the object ball will pick up a small amount of right English.

 

[VVP]

The videos and info here might also be helpful:

Sidespin Tutorial​

Thanks, Dr. Dave. Your book is extremely helpful for beginners and even more seasoned players.

 

[dr_dave]

On page 105 of his book, The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards, Dr. Dave states “If the cue ball has left English, the object ball will pick up a small amount of right spin.”

Today, assuming I am referring to a straight shot, I would instead write it as:

A CB with left (CW) spin will transfer a small amount of right (CCW) spin to the OB.

 

[dr_dave]

Thanks, Dr. Dave.

You're welcome.

Your book is extremely helpful for beginners and even more seasoned players.

I'm glad you think so. Good luck with your game.