Deflection question, explain how a stiffer CF shaft has less deflection.

S

Shooter1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've played with wood shafts, OEM Schon in the early days, then Mezz WXC700's and Cat and Precat Predators for the last 45 years and am fine with them. I recently tried a friends Predator CF cue and it didn't do anything for me but granted I only hit about 3 racks.
As I understand it, a CF shaft is stiffer than a comparable diameter wood shaft and would/should therefore flex less when using R or L spin and therefore push the CB off line more, creating more deflection or squirt. Am I right in this assumption?

I understand end mass has something to do with it but if CF is stiffer than a comparable diameter wood shaft and the end mass is also comparable, it seems to me that a CF shaft could actually create more deflection/squirt than a wood shaft.

I've considered buying a CF shaft before I die but would like some opinions on whether my logic above is correct.

Thanks all.
 
There are CF shafts out there that flex more, like the SMO and Cuetec.
It is really comes down to the taper that affects the flexibility that you feel in your hand.
The front end mass is what makes the shaft to deflect more or less. I believe that the flexibility at the end of the shaft is something that tou can’t feel and can’t see without a slow motion video.

I have an InFuze keilwood shaft that is stiffer than my SMO and both perform about the same when it comes to deflection. I was quite surprised as the InFuze is quite heavy.
 
skor said:
There are CF shafts out there that flex more, like the SMO and Cuetec.
It is really comes down to the taper that affects the flexibility that you feel in your hand.
The front end mass is what makes the shaft to deflect more or less. I believe that the flexibility at the end of the shaft is something that tou can’t feel and can’t see without a slow motion video.

I have an InFuze keilwood shaft that is stiffer than my SMO and both perform about the same when it comes to deflection. I was quite surprised as the InFuze is quite heavy.
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Do you think Carom wood shafts deflect less than Pool wood shafts?

And why or why not.
 
mr3cushion said:
Do you think Carom wood shafts deflect less than Pool wood shafts?

And why or why not.
Click to expand...
they use to be with a smaller diameter than a standard pool shaft so they had lower end mass = lower deflection (same goes for snooker cues)
Predator Z shaft deflects less than the 314, the Z has a conical taper, it is stiffer but smaller diameter and lower end mass.
 
skor said:
they use to be with a smaller diameter than a standard pool shaft so they had lower end mass = lower deflection (same goes for snooker cues)
Predator Z shaft deflects less than the 314, the Z has a conical taper, it is stiffer but smaller diameter and lower end mass.
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'Standard' diam for a 3C shaft tip is 12mm.

I believe for Snooker tip 10-11mm.

But, Snooker 'Ferrules' are made of Brass.

I also believe the avg wood Pool shaft tip is 12.2-12.4, plus Ferrules are longer.
 
Deflection reduction requires a reduction IN MASS at the front-end of the cue. A stiffer shaft MIGHT deflect a lil more but it doesn't have to. Some CF shafts are both stiff and lo-defl. To get lo-def. in a wood shaft requires either smaller size/conical taper or hollowing out. Short light ferrules help also. Anything to reduce mass.
 
mr3cushion said:
'Standard' diam for a 3C shaft tip is 12mm.

I believe for Snooker tip 10-11mm.

But, Snooker 'Ferrules' are made of Brass.

I also believe the avg wood Pool shaft tip is 12.2-12.4, plus Ferrules are longer.
Click to expand...
Pool shafts used to be 13-14mm
So compared to that, 12mm has much less front end mass.
3C shafts also used to have a shorter ferrule that reduces weight.

Modern pool shafts that have smaller diameter and shorter ferrule reduce the difference.
 
mr3cushion said:
'Standard' diam for a 3C shaft tip is 12mm.

I believe for Snooker tip 10-11mm.

But, Snooker 'Ferrules' are made of Brass.

I also believe the avg wood Pool shaft tip is 12.2-12.4, plus Ferrules are longer.
Click to expand...
Most snooker pros these days use 8.5-9mm shafts. Most are conical taper with brass(some titanium too) ferrules. Used to be all ash cues but a lot more maple shafts are used today. A few use cf but not many.
 
Probably the equations are incomplete. Like "end mass" - is it the contact at the edge of the tip? What exactly contributes to this contact mass?
There's a book sitting on my shelf, Lost In Math by Sabine Hossenfelder that I bought for the title and synopsis (generally, complex math is too busy trying to solve itself to actually describe anything.) So on simple Newtonian conjecture, cue lathes should produce ramen instead of cues. Obviously they can't but I do wonder about math offered in support of some marketing premise.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The shaft's mass in the first several inches only - Dr. Dave explains here (https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/cue/terminology/) how much of the shaft's length is "involved".

pj
chgo
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And of course the missing numbers like impact distribution (tip vs CB), the flex over the entire length, skin, etc... all deemed negligible because the math is too hard? Interesting skin is a factor because it contributes to the scientific argument. Note I'm not arguing the facts. Just find it funny. lol...
 
straightline said:
And of course the missing numbers like impact distribution (tip vs CB), the flex over the entire length, skin, etc... all deemed negligible because the math is too hard? Interesting skin is a factor because it contributes to the scientific argument. Note I'm not arguing the facts. Just find it funny. lol...
Click to expand...
Here's Dr. Dave's explanation more directly about stiffness vs. endmass:

drdavepoolinfo.com

Shaft Endmass and Stiffness Effects - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the effects of shaft endmass and stiffness on squirt in pool and billiards.
drdavepoolinfo.com drdavepoolinfo.com

pj
chgo
 
Shooter1 said:
As I understand it, a CF shaft is stiffer than a comparable diameter wood shaft and would/should therefore flex less when using R or L spin and therefore push the CB off line more, creating more deflection or squirt.
Click to expand...
I am not knowing the answer to your question. However you bring up something I’ve wondered about myself:

Deflection isn’t just squirt. It is the sum total of squirt and swerve.

I have a hard time judging swerve.
I have a better feel for squirt.

For example, O.B. 1/2 ball off long rail with C.B. a little steeper than a half ball hit. If I want to bring C.B. across table to opposite long rail I might aim a little thicker than if I want to double the rail across.

I don’t think that I’m accounting for swerve just the initial squirt. If I get the feel for those shots with my cue, why would I want to change to something else that might be negligibly different.

Good wood is gonna keep getting harder and harder to find.
 
I just got done shooting an old school cue today with a maple shaft and its one of the best hitting cues.

Deflection could very well be a myth. If anything, a carbon shaft gives me more trouble.
 
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