China Open
- Thread starter jay helfert
- Start date
Yes, I've noticed that too. But that's something totally different. If I break, don't have a shot, and then tie you up, your back is against the wall just trying to get a good hit so as not to leave BIH. Hopefully try to separate the cue and object ball the best you can. Very few kicks, swerves or jumps are successfully and intentionally returning the safe.
On the other hand, a mandatory push always provides options and an opportunity to outmaneuver your opponent. To me, that injection of strategy and defensive skills are way more entertaining. Today's players shoot so scary straight runouts are boring to watch; something needs to be done to make the game more interesting to watch. In fact, I'll add to the mandatory push after the break - keep making the pockets smaller until running a rack is impressive. Adding pressure to players will make their personalities come out more. Nobody likes watching the emotionless robot play.
I'm ok with shortening the race to keep match times reasonable.
There’s a different outlook or attitude. I don’t see how scary straight shooting is boring. I admire it. Some might envy it at some level and then want to tear it down because they can’t do it. I can’t say you have that attitude, I am disagreeing not judging. People generally overestimate the number of racks run and generally underestimate the number of times people- even top pros- miss. As Jay posted above, many racked go to safety play or strategy without gaff rules. There’s a balance there.
Play winner breaks on 4.5” pockets with top pros and tell me how many 6+ packs there are. Not that many. And I want to see a top pro catch a gear and run a bunch. It’s great to see.
I have posted about it before. I was new to pool in the ‘80’s and there was a big tournament in Denver. I went to watch. Buddy Hall was playing a local in a race to 11. Score was 4-2 for Buddy after the good local player got a couple. He broke but missed the 2. Buddy ran the set. Every break the cue ball parked in the middle. I think he had one bank shot during the run. I was too new to fully appreciate it. But I remember it even as it is approaching 40 years ago. I don’t think I’d remember anything from 7 racks of nit shots 40 years later.
Don't get me wrong, I admire today's top players too.
Here's the issue I have though, with an open rack, it's impossible to differentiate a player with a 750 Fargo rating running out from the 850 sitting in the chair. As SVB once commented, 9-ball has become too easy:
I would rather watch someone being challenged and be impressed when they run out.
You can't tell the difference between very good vs great players in many things by watching a small sample. I also don't think Shane was necessarily saying nine ball would be better with different rules. I don't know what he thinks on that. I do like what he said about 8 ball. I like watching him play bar box 8 ball in the youtube stuff that is out there. And contrary to some posters here who have never missed on a Valley, SVB has missed a ball on one.
That said, he is going to run tons of racks of 8 ball on any table. So if a 750 like Johnny Archer (751), Rodney Morris (750), Shane McMinn and Max Eberle both (754), Justin Hall (753) Devin Poteet and Kristina Tkach both (745) or Chip Compton (760) run some racks it's a problem? I don't see it.
Nope, no problem. I would just like to see the game being challenging enough to differentiate between a 750 and 850. When I'm watching a Filler or Gorst at the table, I would like the game to be challenging enough to be able to appreciate what they're doing as being exceptional / the best in the world. As Shane said, currently, the game is too easy with a lot of luck. Fix those two things. I agree with Shane. Of course, I know opinions vary and this is just mine (and Shane's
).
If you watch closely there is a definite difference between 750 and 850 players. A big one! Both can make balls but the 850 controls the cue ball better and rarely gets out of line. The 850 player typically jumps balls better and more accurately, and plays tighter safeties. And lastly they will play better under pressure, an overlooked quality when viewing stats. I can see the difference in matches like this and often comment online when I see the small errors that lead to failed run outs.Nope, no problem. I would just like to see the game being challenging enough to differentiate between a 750 and 850. When I'm watching a Filler or Gorst at the table, I would like the game to be challenging enough to be able to appreciate what they're doing as being exceptional / the best in the world. As Shane said, currently, the game is too easy with a lot of luck. Fix those two things. I agree with Shane. Of course, I know opinions vary and this is just mine (and Shane's
probably also because it's better for the racking integrity in money games. break success relies on a tight, not tilted rack
I didn't imply everyone should have a fighting chance every rack. I just said it would make the game more interesting to watch (at least for some).
I know what you mean. Sure, over the course of a match you can see those subtle differences (if you're a pool nut like us). For the casual fan, watching a 750 run an open table looks the same as an 850. In fact, even for us pool nuts, 750s can play flawless for an entire set. Make the table tougher and stop putting so much emphasis on pattern breaking combined with a little luck, and I think the game gets better for viewers. Plus, we'd get to see their personalities come out more under the pressure. Few enjoy watching emotionless robots run out an easy rack.
How come nobody agrees with me? There's got to be someone. Anyone?
The game is plenty challenging enough to differentiate. But it won’t differentiate in one or two racks. It won’t necessarily differentiate in one set. It generally differentiates in a tournament, even a weekend bar box event. Funny how I played as dead money in a Lucasi Tour event on the bar boxes a year ago and the top 3 were Oscar, Vilmos, and Max in order of FargoRate. That doesn’t happen all the time and of course results never perfectly track ratings. They can’t and shouldn’t. Look at the Derby City results over the years with races to 7 winner breaks. The best were there at the end pretty much.Nope, no problem. I would just like to see the game being challenging enough to differentiate between a 750 and 850. When I'm watching a Filler or Gorst at the table, I would like the game to be challenging enough to be able to appreciate what they're doing as being exceptional / the best in the world. As Shane said, currently, the game is too easy with a lot of luck. Fix those two things. I agree with Shane. Of course, I know opinions vary and this is just mine (and Shane's
And running a rack of 9 ball is not exceptional. You don’t have to be Filler/SVB/Gorst to do it. So not every rack is going to be a struggle. The better player isn’t going to have a chance in every rack as you prefer. Not every rack is going to mete out perfect justice to the better player. That’s the game. Somehow though the finals roll around and two of the better players seem to be in it. And it really becomes apparent over a year or career. The short term won’t prove it, but I’d rather see some packages in the short term than a 3 hour nit fest 10 ball insomnia cure. That’s me tho.
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sudocrushms
Well-known member
The break is tougher, call pocket, and no early 10s (generally) make 10b much tougher than 9b. A place for both, and 8b, and 1p, and 3c, and and and... Variety is good, but I'll let longer 10b matches differentiate skill.
Admittedly, one pocket is by far my favorite game to play and to watch. I'm just trying to fix 9 ball for ya'all so it's more like one pocket.