Why is running English always (or at least usually) used for multi rail kicks?

[nataddrho]

Seems like you might get the same result by altering where you contact the first rail. I'm sure that I don't know why, but surely there must be a reason.

The answer to your question is that if you want to keep your rebound angle equivalent to your incident angle, then you want to reduce the change in momentum of the ball as much as possible. That means both translational and angular momentum. You don't have control over the translational momentum other then your shot speed. You can make the rebound angle go a little shorter if you hit with more speed. You do have more control over the angular momentum (spin). Hitting the ball so that it maintains the same (or close to the same) spin before and after contact will result in less rotational energy being converted into torque, which will change the outgoing velocity components of the ball and thus changing the rebound angle.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Outside english can be either running or reverse when it gets to a cushion.

I like to call it whatever it is in relation to whatever it’s hitting - if the spin adds speed it’s “running” or “outside”, and if it decreases speed it’s “reverse” or “inside”. So a single shot can be both if it hits both ball and rail.

pj
chgo

 

[Zerksies]

Short answer, the running spin aids in keeping the ball going.

 

[maha]

its consistently losing its speed otherwise we would all have no electric bills and no need for gasoline anymore.
and if it hits a parallel rail it dies a quick death.

it can help or hurt a shot depending on what you are trying to do.

 

[Buckzapper]

To become a great kicker, take the time to learn 3 cushion if there is a table available. They used to say it would add 25% to your game. To a perfect kick, I say "Seeing is believing."

 

[straightline]

its consistently losing its speed otherwise we would all have no electric bills and no need for gasoline anymore.
and if it hits a parallel rail it dies a quick death.

it can help or hurt a shot depending on what you are trying to do.

Except in the multiverse.

 

[maha]

are any of those balls increasing in speed after they past the max acceleration point after the hit.

technically i agree a tiny bit of speed over a short distance can come from increased top spin. but not for long as friction and heat will slow the ball down.

 

[straightline]

are any of those balls increasing in speed after they past the max acceleration point after the hit.

technically i agree a tiny bit of speed over a short distance can come from increased top spin. but not for long as friction and heat will slow the ball down.

Clearly not possible but juice and low friction sure count.

 

[Bob Jewett]

are any of those balls increasing in speed after they past the max acceleration point after the hit.

technically i agree a tiny bit of speed over a short distance can come from increased top spin. but not for long as friction and heat will slow the ball down.

It's possible to hit the ball with a little bit of "excess" top spin -- beyond rolling smoothly. The problem is that the higher you hit, the less forward speed you get right off the tip. It turns out that for a shot like a lag where the ball has time to be rolling smoothly before it hits something -- you want to hit at about 61% of the height of the ball for the ball to roll the farthest.

 

[straightline]

It's possible to hit the ball with a little bit of "excess" top spin -- beyond rolling smoothly. The problem is that the higher you hit, the less forward speed you get right off the tip. It turns out that for a shot like a lag where the ball has time to be rolling smoothly before it hits something -- you want to hit at about 61% of the height of the ball for the ball to roll the farthest.

How about a vertical masse slightly forward of the vertical axis?

 

[bbb]

1) for exactly the same reason a CB with inside english speeds up (= gains energy).
2) probably, there is a gearing side spin amount so that the edge of CB is moving at exactly the speed of the cloth on the rail as it hits.

Outside english can be either running or reverse when it gets to a cushion.

1)why would the cue ball lose energy because of outside english?

i think running or reverse english is better terminology
running english adds speed.....reverse english kills speed
my question to you abaove was based on me assuming you were reffering to outside being running english as used in muti rail kicks

 

[bbb]

i think running or reverse english is better terminology
running english adds speed.....reverse english kills speed
my question to you abaove was based on me assuming you were reffering to outside being running english as used in muti rail kicks
View attachment 879609

if we used inside english the results would be opposite of abaove

 

[dquarasr]

I like to call it whatever it is in relation to whatever it’s hitting - if the spin adds speed it’s “running” or “outside”, and if it decreases speed it’s “reverse” or “inside”. So a single shot can be both if it hits both ball and rail.

pj
chgo

“Outside” and “Inside” are conventional terms used to describe spin in relation to the object ball’s angle with the cue ball.

“Running” and “Reverse” are conventional terms used to describe the cue ball’s spin in relation to its angle off a cushion.

Giving meaning based on context to common terms, is unnecessarily confusing.

 

[Black-Balled]

Seems like you might get the same result by altering where you contact the first rail. I'm sure that I don't know why, but surely there must be a reason.

Of course one can and should be able to end at the same point various ways?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

“Outside” and “Inside” are conventional terms used to describe spin in relation to the object ball’s angle with the cue ball.

“Running” and “Reverse” are conventional terms used to describe the cue ball’s spin in relation to its angle off a cushion.

Giving meaning based on context to common terms, is unnecessarily confusing.

Since they produce the same CB result, I think it's unnecessarily confusing to use different terms.

pj
chgo

 

[maha]

to get it straight in simple terms:

inside or outside english, is defined as hitting the side of the cueball that is toward the object ball. or could be if hitting the the rail.

if hitting dead straight to either, it would be left or right english.

 

[heater451]

...You can make the rebound angle go a little shorter if you hit with more speed.....

To OP, if you consider that going multi-cushion normally requires extra speed/power, which shortens rebound angles, then the running spin helps to open the rebound angle back out, making it more "true" in a way.

However, that opening up the angle at the first cushion will actually close-up the angle at the second one--because the 'attack' angle to the second has become steeper. Mostly a guess, but I think there is also some "offset" effect of the first two angles, which makes the return path (more) correct for the parallel-ISH leg of the shot (off the 2nd cushion).

It would be interesting to me, to compare the differences in the angles for each cushion, but I don't have the time or motivation to chart them out. Plus, achieving a consistent spin would be tough...although, I suppose that a ton of repeats and averaging would sort that out well enough, but I digress....

 

[heater451]

Since they produce the same CB result, I think it's unnecessarily confusing to use different terms.

pj
chgo

Don't forget "check".

 

[maha]

running english, is english applied that keeps the cueball with the same english and directional flow as it hits perpendicular cushions.

reverse english makes the ball want to not go with the directional current flow.

 

[heater451]

“Outside” and “Inside” are conventional terms used to describe spin in relation to the object ball’s angle with the cue ball.

“Running” and “Reverse” are conventional terms used to describe the cue ball’s spin in relation to its angle off a cushion.

Giving meaning based on context to common terms, is unnecessarily confusing.

Sorry, I 'liked' this at first, but then re-read it....

"Inside" and "Outside" are not in relation to the CB/OB angle, because you can hit either from the same CB/OB setup. The "sides" are in relation to the pocket, with "In" towards the pocket, and "Out" away from the pocket. The "pocket" of course, being where one intends to pot the object ball.