I finally played Ultimate Pool

[boogieman]

I think it may make sense in the 30 minute match system. But I don’t think I like the rule. Last night was the first time I saw someone lose a rack for that. I think he just forgot BCA vs UPL. And the match was two pretty even lower ranked players so the time clock wasn’t an issue when it happened. You mentioned above you have to spot 4 games many times. In that scenario trying to tie up balls playing safes on you would be a good time wasting strategy in some situations. The clock isn’t always an issue but it can be.

I apparently got away with a loss of game foul because I pulled the cue ball from the ball return and handed it to the opponent after I scratched a couple weeks ago. Didn’t know it was loss of game and neither did the opponent. Told later it was because of the shot clock. I guess it keeps things moving. That said, we’ll see how the league does going forward. I am still trying to keep an open mind and try to play as well as I can this season. But afterwards I’ll assess and see if it is for me. I am wondering if some players will keep playing in future seasons. I don’t think I am the only one who hasn’t loved the format. Some people do like it though.

Yeah, that one is a tough habit to break. Basically never touch a rolling cueball or do anything while it's still rolling. If it goes in the drink let your opponent fish it out. The rule seems silly but if you grabbed the CB to give them BIH and purposely made the handoff take a few seconds longer or walked the long way around to give it to them it would be clock manipulation. Grabbing a cb that drops and handing it to your opponent is seen as a courtesy most of the time but I get not allowing it, it could be used to rob your opponent of a few seconds of match time. Even if you're quick about it, you might be impeding their route to the next shot. It's best to just walk away from the table after your turn is over.

We've had it happen several times just out of habit, our team has done it as has the opposing team. I've never seen anyone actually call a foul on it, but someone usually reminds the offender that it is indeed a foul and to let the opponent fish it out.

I suppose if you were in a reffed match or playing against rule lawyers they could call you, but even at the grand national tournament most people were cordial and showed respect for the spirit of the game and good sportsmanship. It's a new format and most people are decent about not calling you on something you didn't understand. That said, if you want to protect yourself from the rule lawyers it's a great idea to read and learn the rules.

 

[easy-e]

I think it may make sense in the 30 minute match system. But I don’t think I like the rule. Last night was the first time I saw someone lose a rack for that. I think he just forgot BCA vs UPL. And the match was two pretty even lower ranked players so the time clock wasn’t an issue when it happened. You mentioned above you have to spot 4 games many times. In that scenario trying to tie up balls playing safes on you would be a good time wasting strategy in some situations. The clock isn’t always an issue but it can be.

I apparently got away with a loss of game foul because I pulled the cue ball from the ball return and handed it to the opponent after I scratched a couple weeks ago. Didn’t know it was loss of game and neither did the opponent. Told later it was because of the shot clock. I guess it keeps things moving. That said, we’ll see how the league does going forward. I am still trying to keep an open mind and try to play as well as I can this season. But afterwards I’ll assess and see if it is for me. I am wondering if some players will keep playing in future seasons. I don’t think I am the only one who hasn’t loved the format. Some people do like it though.

You pulled the ball from the ball return to give to your opponent? How would you lose the game for that? That seems crazy to me and I'd hate it too.

 

[easy-e]

Yeah, that one is a tough habit to break. Basically never touch a rolling cueball or do anything while it's still rolling. If it goes in the drink let your opponent fish it out. The rule seems silly but if you grabbed the CB to give them BIH and purposely made the handoff take a few seconds longer or walked the long way around to give it to them it would be clock manipulation. Grabbing a cb that drops and handing it to your opponent is seen as a courtesy most of the time but I get not allowing it, it could be used to rob your opponent of a few seconds of match time. Even if you're quick about it, you might be impeding their route to the next shot. It's best to just walk away from the table after your turn is over.

We've had it happen several times just out of habit, our team has done it as has the opposing team. I've never seen anyone actually call a foul on it, but someone usually reminds the offender that it is indeed a foul and to let the opponent fish it out.

I suppose if you were in a reffed match or playing against rule lawyers they could call you, but even at the grand national tournament most people were cordial and showed respect for the spirit of the game and good sportsmanship. It's a new format and most people are decent about not calling you on something you didn't understand. That said, if you want to protect yourself from the rule lawyers it's a great idea to read and learn the rules.

I would never call a loss of game on someone for handing me a cueball that is scratching. If anything, they are SAVING you time by not having to wait for the ball return. I'll never be disrespectful towards my opponent if they call me on it, but it would kinda bother me.

 

[JPB2]

You pulled the ball from the ball return to give to your opponent? How would you lose the game for that? That seems crazy to me and I'd hate it too.

Yeah, that was a situation I don’t remember being covered in the rules presentations we saw before playing and I haven’t gone and looked in the rule book after. The part about not touching moving balls was well covered but I don’t remember the ball return issue. But maybe it was. And in the end it didn’t matter. Neither of us knew that and we just kept playing as normal. But was informed in the future etc…..

 

[Bob Jewett]

Yeah, that was a situation I don’t remember being covered in the rules presentations we saw before playing and I haven’t gone and looked in the rule book after. The part about not touching moving balls was well covered but I don’t remember the ball return issue. But maybe it was. And in the end it didn’t matter. Neither of us knew that and we just kept playing as normal. But was informed in the future etc…..

What is the actual rule?

 

[JPB2]

What is the actual rule?

I’ll try to find it later.

 

[u12armresl]

You're totally right. That was one of the first rules I questioned. Their response was that everything they do is designed to speed up the competitions. They want to avoid long, drawn out racks to keep the tournament on schedule and to add excitement for the viewers.

I think they could change the rule to 1 tie up a game or however you'd word it.

The other school of thought from people was, just bash at the ball since slop counts and maybe when the balls come to rest you made a ball or tied one up that way. I'd rather not do the hit and hope shot.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think they could change the rule to 1 tie up a game or however you'd word it. ...

Considering how often it happens -- almost never in typical league games -- there is no reason to put a limit on intentional illegal contact.

The real reason it's in there is because snooker has/had a rule that you should never benefit from a foul. It's unsportsmanlike and very lower class.

 

[JPB2]

What is the actual rule?

I’m still not sure and there is a limit to how much I am going to research it. But… I think it is their 8 ball rule 6f(9). There is a corresponding rule for 10 ball in another section- 13(9). That rule has as a loss of rack foul “ Deliberately moving a ball(s) other than playing as part of a shot.” They then list two exceptions to the rule, neither of which covers the handing the ball to the opponent.

I think this must be it; handing the cue ball over technically qualifies. I also noticed a possible contradiction/ conflict/ ambiguity in two rules that differentiate between standard fouls and loss of rack fouls. I won’t go into it now. Anyway, given this, what I have been told, and going through some of the rules, if I foul I am never going to touch a ball in any way, including to signal a foul. If, for instance, I touch a ball and call a foul on myself, I will simply tell the opponent that I fouled and it’s ball in hand and walk to the chair. If I am correct that this is the rule that applies, I am not a fan of its interpretation and application.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... if I foul I am never going to touch a ball in any way, including to signal a foul. ...

In your experience, is there always a referee present?

 

[JPB2]

In your experience, is there always a referee present?

Never. All I’ve played at this point is an introductory tournament and the weekly league. It’s actually a group of reasonable people so things tend to go ok. I do prefer BCA/ CSI rules though. I could see something being called by some people in a certain situation though. And there are the loss of rack fouls that are more obvious you need to avoid.