I need a little help identifying this Gold Crown

BobbyD963 said:
Also im having the shop I bought it from put k-55 super speed cushions on it and tightening the pockets to 4.25. Its funny I have always wanted a gold crown, and I finally had the opportunity to get one in a place to put it but I haven’t shot a competitive game of pool in over 20 years and it’s not like riding a bike. I used to be able to run a nine ball rack no problem now I’m lucky if I make two shots in a row and set myself up for the third shot.. i’m hoping having this new table will help with lots of practice get my game where it used to be.
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Used to be able to run a rack of 9 ball no problem is rather ambiguous. Lots of people talk about how they or someone they know used to be able to run racks. You 100% wont be running racks on a 4.25, and unless you adjust the rails it wont play anywhere near right.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Buckets = super easy pockets.

Standard Gold Crowns from GC1 through GC6 have all shipped from the factory with 5.0" pockets at the corners. The GC5 and GC6 had a "Tournament Edition" table that was instead 4.5" pockets for an extra $1000 factory option. Not many of those out there though.

If you are used to Gold Crowns inside commercial rooms from 20-30 years ago, they were all 5" corners, UNLESS a local mechanic "shimmed" them. The practice today of extending the rails instead of using extra shims didn't really take off until about 15 years ago, and only the fanatic pool players do that, because it requires extensive modifications and new cushions.

Double shim = 4.75" pockets and were common for the serious 9 ball players.
Triple shim = 4.5" pockets, and were common for the serious 1 pocket players.

Most commercial rooms had the 5" factory configuration on the majority of their tables, and a handful of double and/or triple shimmed tables for the gamblers.

One thing of note, a 5" pocket on a GC I don't consider a "bucket". Because of the way the jaw facings are angled, you still have to hit the ball good for it to fall in the pocket. By contrast, a "home" table, even from Brunswick, IS a bucket table. Those pockets are still 5" at the corners, but the jaw facing angle is closer to parallel than a GC, and makes the ball fall much easier.

As far as tougher pockets = better player, that is a debate on here for sure. I know a bunch of people who have a TIGHT 9' Diamond at home, and can't run 3 balls. I personally don't think it makes any difference, and even think a tight table might be worse unless you can legit run 100 balls in straight pool or 7-9 racks of 9 ball (once in your life, not every day). It can be worse because it makes you play timid and ease up on your stroke, rather than playing aggressive and pounding the balls in like the top pros do.
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Haven't heard double or triple shim in a long long time. Before all the good table mechanics, shimming was the way. Also heard double and triple tough as a reference to tables.

Stupid tough only comes to mind thinking about the golf table at Hard Times.
 
u12armresl said:
Used to be able to run a rack of 9 ball no problem is rather ambiguous. Lots of people talk about how they or someone they know used to be able to run racks. You 100% wont be running racks on a 4.25, and unless you adjust the rails it wont play anywhere near right.
Click to expand...
My Gold Crown I has 4.125” corners and 4.875” sides. I can and do run out. My personal best on my table is a 5 pack, both in 8B and 9B; Two in a row playing 10B. That being sad, there’s more to the game than BNR’s.
 
BobbyD963 said:
Wouldn’t tighter pockets be more of a challenge? So if im practicing on a table with tight pockets and ultimately end up being able to drain shots, wouldn’t that mean my game improved? Forgive me if im not up to speed on billiard terminology but I don’t understand what you mean by buckets. If the table didnt have a ball return or didn’t have drop pockets and whenever you made a shot the ball just dropped to the floor, you still made the shot. What difference does it make if its drop pockets, “buckets”, or sand pales catching the balls? I dont mean to come off rude, just kind of matching your vibe.
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While all three, pocket opening, shelf depth, pocket angle, determine toughness of play, in my opinion and my opinion only, shelf depth and pocket angle have a much bigger affect on toughness of play than pocket opening width.
 
BobbyD963 said:
Also im having the shop I bought it from put k-55 super speed cushions on it and tightening the pockets to 4.25. Its funny I have always wanted a gold crown, and I finally had the opportunity to get one in a place to put it but I haven’t shot a competitive game of pool in over 20 years and it’s not like riding a bike. I used to be able to run a nine ball rack no problem now I’m lucky if I make two shots in a row and set myself up for the third shot.. i’m hoping having this new table will help with lots of practice get my game where it used to be.
Click to expand...
Start practicing 6-7 hours a day and you'll be running racks in no time. 👍
 
BobbyD963 said:
Also im having the shop I bought it from put k-55 super speed cushions on it and tightening the pockets to 4.25. Its funny I have always wanted a gold crown, and I finally had the opportunity to get one in a place to put it but I haven’t shot a competitive game of pool in over 20 years and it’s not like riding a bike. I used to be able to run a nine ball rack no problem now I’m lucky if I make two shots in a row and set myself up for the third shot.. i’m hoping having this new table will help with lots of practice get my game where it used to be.
Click to expand...
are they lengthening the subrails or just shimming it? shimming it to 4.25 will make the throat way to tight. Table will play funky-tough. they shimmed the tables at my local spot to just under 4.25 and they play like shit. balls hit with ANY speed get spit out. shimming from 5" down to 4.5 isn't terrible but any tighter and it sucks.
 
muskyed said:
While all three, pocket opening, shelf depth, pocket angle, determine toughness of play, in my opinion and my opinion only, shelf depth and pocket angle have a much bigger affect on toughness of play than pocket opening width.
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I think it depends what you're implying, I honestly think that depending on the pocket angle, a looser pocket can play tougher than a tighter pocket.

Not better tougher, stupid tougher as in, it makes no sense and shouldn't be the case.
 
Jaden said:
I think it depends what you're implying, I honestly think that depending on the pocket angle, a looser pocket can play tougher than a tighter pocket.

Not better tougher, stupid tougher as in, it makes no sense and shouldn't be the case.
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Yes, its possible to have a big opening and super tight throat. That table would play like shit. It would still 'play tight' but in a weirdly different way.
 
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Jaden said:
It doesn't even have to be a super tight throat, The facing angle and the wide pocket makes it more likely to rebound into the opposing facing angle rather than into the pocket.
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Too wide an angle equates to a larger mouth vs throat.
 
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u12armresl said:
Haven't heard double or triple shim in a long long time. Before all the good table mechanics, shimming was the way. Also heard double and triple tough as a reference to tables.

Stupid tough only comes to mind thinking about the golf table at Hard Times.
Click to expand...
Funny story about that. I rented out big bertha while I was waiting for a match in one of the big tourneys there. The swanee or a predator 10 ball event, I don't remember which, I was shooting some shots and Butch Barba comes over and says I'll shoot that shot with my eyes closed and he did, it was an object ball in the center of the table and the cueball about a diamond out, shooting it into the far corner.

I said, I'll do it too. and they set it up and I shot it and looked up and someone was picking a ball off the floor to put back on the table and Butch was just walking away so I figured I had missed since I had my eyes closed and everyone was laughing. They weren't laughing because I had missed they were laughing because I made it and that's why Butch was walking away.
 
u12armresl said:
Used to be able to run a rack of 9 ball no problem is rather ambiguous. Lots of people talk about how they or someone they know used to be able to run racks. You 100% wont be running racks on a 4.25, and unless you adjust the rails it wont play anywhere near right.
Click to expand...
Take it to Hard Times Champion! 😂 … jk bro
Give me a few months of practice and I’ll be there..
 
iusedtoberich said:
Buckets = super easy pockets.

Standard Gold Crowns from GC1 through GC6 have all shipped from the factory with 5.0" pockets at the corners. The GC5 and GC6 had a "Tournament Edition" table that was instead 4.5" pockets for an extra $1000 factory option. Not many of those out there though.

If you are used to Gold Crowns inside commercial rooms from 20-30 years ago, they were all 5" corners, UNLESS a local mechanic "shimmed" them. The practice today of extending the rails instead of using extra shims didn't really take off until about 15 years ago, and only the fanatic pool players do that, because it requires extensive modifications and new cushions.

Double shim = 4.75" pockets and were common for the serious 9 ball players.
Triple shim = 4.5" pockets, and were common for the serious 1 pocket players.

Most commercial rooms had the 5" factory configuration on the majority of their tables, and a handful of double and/or triple shimmed tables for the gamblers.

One thing of note, a 5" pocket on a GC I don't consider a "bucket". Because of the way the jaw facings are angled, you still have to hit the ball good for it to fall in the pocket. By contrast, a "home" table, even from Brunswick, IS a bucket table. Those pockets are still 5" at the corners, but the jaw facing angle is closer to parallel than a GC, and makes the ball fall much easier.

As far as tougher pockets = better player, that is a debate on here for sure. I know a bunch of people who have a TIGHT 9' Diamond at home, and can't run 3 balls. I personally don't think it makes any difference, and even think a tight table might be worse unless you can legit run 100 balls in straight pool or 7-9 racks of 9 ball (once in your life, not every day). It can be worse because it makes you play timid and ease up on your stroke, rather than playing aggressive and pounding the balls in like the top pros do.
Click to expand...
It's interesting to look back to the time when GCs were the standard in most of the country before Diamond took that spot. I remember hearing about double and triple shimmed GC tables in other pool rooms and thinking about how tight those must play. The reality is a triple shimmed GC is essentially a factory Diamond table today in terms of pocket size - although they may have played a bit tougher due to the facing angles.

Not taking anything away from the pros who played in tournaments on new cloth with 5" pockets, but that's a bucket compared to the pro tournaments being played on 4" Diamonds today.
 
FordSVTCobra said:
It's interesting to look back to the time when GCs were the standard in most of the country before Diamond took that spot. I remember hearing about double and triple shimmed GC tables in other pool rooms and thinking about how tight those must play. The reality is a triple shimmed GC is essentially a factory Diamond table today in terms of pocket size - although they may have played a bit tougher due to the facing angles.

Not taking anything away from the pros who played in tournaments on new cloth with 5" pockets, but that's a bucket compared to the pro tournaments being played on 4" Diamonds today.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's crazy the difference. Actually a triple shimmed GC is WAY easier than a factory pro-cut diamond. The Diamond has a way deeper shelf, and the facing angles are further from parallel. Both result in more rejected balls.

What used to be the toughest table in pool, is now easier than a pro-cut Diamond. The windup is all the bangers think the pro-cut Diamond is too easy. Doesn't make any sense to me.
 
The best match I saw on our pool room's triple shimmed GC1 was Danny Bassavich vs the owner Bob Maidoff. This was about 1998/9 I want to say, when Danny was still on the "road". They played a race to 10 in 9 ball for I think 500. Bob won the first set and Danny the second. Both sets were close.
 
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