Are high end predators hard to sell on the secondary market?

garczar said:
JOSS? Sweet classic style.
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Thank you.
Going for that old school classic look.
Steve and I went back and forth for about a year bouncing ideas off of each other. He is a very patient gentleman. The theme of the cue was fall colors and his kielwood shaft came with the cue.
His father made a cue for me 10 years prior which he cleaned up for me and I have retired it.
 
philly said:
Thank you.
Going for that old school classic look.
Steve and I went back and forth for about a year bouncing ideas off of each other. He is a very patient gentleman. The theme of the cue was fall colors and his kielwood shaft came with the cue.
His father made a cue for me 10 years prior which he cleaned up for me and I have retired it.
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Steve is one of the best designers alive. The high end Joss stuff is really tough to beat from a visual standpoint.

My dream cue is the 2601 that came out this year.
 
skor said:
People will pay more for a different colored car and other products.
They will also pay more for a limited and special editions products although it's the same product with the same specs.
This is not just a Predator thing. Predator just realize it and know how to use it to make money.
I don't see any issues with that.
The secondary market prices are sometimes ridiculous, but this as well not just a Predator thing, there are a lot of custom cue makers these days that won't deal or sell cues directly to customers and you have to go through a dealer/flipper that adds their gain to the prices.

People collect for different reasons.
There are collections that are made from real valuable pieces and there are collections that are not. I'll give you an example from a different domain - Cameras collecting. There are cameras out there that are worth thousands of dollars that some people hunt in auctions and collect them, and there are collections of cheap cameras, like from a specific brand, like Russian cameras or collections of cheap point and shoots.

Same goes to cues, there are people who collect the top cue makers, the legendary and big cues.
Other collect a certain brand, like McDermott or Joss or in the case Predator cues.
A lot of cue companies release special edition cues that are being collected, Predator is not unique, just maybe more successful...

I have a small collection of cues, to be honest I didn't pay much for it, back when I was more into collecting, the most I paid was about $1600 for a Tim Scruggs cue. a few of my cues were won on raffles we had here, some I bought second hand, some were new but except for the TS and a McDaniel ($1500) all were under a $1000 (early 2000s values).
It's not like I didn't want a $5000 Szam or a $10000 Bushka, I was just never at a place I can afford such a thing.
Fast forward 20 years and today I'm in a mindset that I will never spend over a $1000 (today's value) on a cue and I find collecting cues a bit stupid if like me, you actually play with them as they are just a piece of wood that doesn't hold well over time.
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Who the hell pays twice as much for the same car because it’s purple instead of black? They are just as dumb lol. A bk rush is $899. This isn’t a hand made custom cue. It’s just a break cue pumped out in a machine. Predator still sells them for that price a different color so it’s not them. It’s the flippers who then more then double the price. But hey a fool and his money are soon parted the saying goes so if the dumb dumbs will pay it.. might as well take it
lakeman77 said:
Appears the cue market has changed, young new players want a cue that plays well, not looks pretty, hence high end cues are hard to sell.
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I’ve said this before but a friend has his dad’s pre franklin south west cue. It has insane work to it. You’ve never seen anything like. A ton of scrimshaw and ivory in lays and ivory joint protectors. He contacted southwest and they said they can get 30k plus for it no problem. If he puts that on the pool table at leagues next to the latest cuetec apa players would be looking at the cuetec with no idea what the southwest is. That’s the pool world now.
 
trob said:
Who the hell pays twice as much for the same car because it’s purple instead of black? They are just as dumb lol. A bk rush is $899. This isn’t a hand made custom cue. It’s just a break cue pumped out in a machine. Predator still sells them for that price a different color so it’s not them. It’s the flippers who then more then double the price. But hey a fool and his money are soon parted the saying goes so if the dumb dumbs will pay it.. might as well take it

I’ve said this before but a friend has his dad’s pre franklin south west cue. It has insane work to it. You’ve never seen anything like. A ton of scrimshaw and ivory in lays and ivory joint protectors. He contacted southwest and they said they can get 30k plus for it no problem. If he puts that on the pool table at leagues next to the latest cuetec apa players would be looking at the cuetec with no idea what the southwest is. That’s the pool world now.
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I agree with you. However, you can currently get the Teal and the Tiger Eye at retail at Biggelbach's.
 
trob said:
Who the hell pays twice as much for the same car because it’s purple instead of black? They are just as dumb lol. A bk rush is $899. This isn’t a hand made custom cue. It’s just a break cue pumped out in a machine. Predator still sells them for that price a different color so it’s not them. It’s the flippers who then more then double the price. But hey a fool and his money are soon parted the saying goes so if the dumb dumbs will pay it.. might as well take it

I’ve said this before but a friend has his dad’s pre franklin south west cue. It has insane work to it. You’ve never seen anything like. A ton of scrimshaw and ivory in lays and ivory joint protectors. He contacted southwest and they said they can get 30k plus for it no problem. If he puts that on the pool table at leagues next to the latest cuetec apa players would be looking at the cuetec with no idea what the southwest is. That’s the pool world now.
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A guy came into the hall the other night so happy with his new predator jump/break cue. "Out of stock forever" he said. I wouldn't know.
Says he stole it for $1100!! 🤦🏻‍♂️
He thinks he can turn it for $1400!! Where does this come from??🤷🏻‍♂️
I mean, c'mon.
 
lakeman77 said:
Appears the cue market has changed, young new players want a cue that plays well, not looks pretty, hence high end cues are hard to sell.
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I believe a lot more people are practical now, including old timers. In one pool hall I play in, generally they play some simple production 2 piece cues. There was only 1 other person aside from me that has a cue that is atleast have more value than the other regular people. That person was using a huebler.
 
I still prefer Predator LD wood shafts over CF any day. Personally, I think that the best shaft i ever had was a Predator Z2 S tuned. Of course, they are marketing genius. But, I really liked they used a lot of testing and was striving to make the best equipment available. I liked it that they had high end custom cuemakers making butts. Bill Stroud, Paul Drexler, Samsara, Jacoby and Pechauer instead of going the cheap route. Its crazy how marketing and sponsorship works. Sponsorship and marketing influenced my choice of a cue when i was young and it still influences the young generation today. Put your product into the hands of a pro and it is not only that pro that is winning major tournaments it is the cue that has won also or the equipment. As a young player getting into the game it was Meucci for me because that was what was in the hands of some of the top pros like strickland and there was always ads in magazines and pool rooms always had the Meucci branded display case full of Meucci's. Before the 80's major sponsorship of pro players was pretty non existent. Players were using mostly random custom cues. It was the makers or manufacturers that put out production cues that was fortunate enough to capitalize on this. they had the funds to sponsor and put their product into the hands of pros. So now its production cues and shafts that young people are seeing winning major tournaments not customs. So thats why young players have no interest or even know one custom cue from another. So back to the OP. Young players are more focused on the shaft now. But good news it is still Predator and Cuetec. The butts whether made by Josswest or a butt made in the Republic of China doesnt matter to them. Putting CF into the hands of pros has almost destroyed the the image of wood shafts. They look at it as the old man and his muscle car. Trying to sell predator cues with LD wood shafts has diminished. The young buyer is looking at it like well it is a Predator but i still have to buy a Revo and leave the predator 314 in the case. So it is a big expense.
 
jlrowe said:
I still prefer Predator LD wood shafts over CF any day. Personally, I think that the best shaft i ever had was a Predator Z2 S tuned. Of course, they are marketing genius. But, I really liked they used a lot of testing and was striving to make the best equipment available. I liked it that they had high end custom cuemakers making butts. Bill Stroud, Paul Drexler, Samsara, Jacoby and Pechauer instead of going the cheap route. Its crazy how marketing and sponsorship works. Sponsorship and marketing influenced my choice of a cue when i was young and it still influences the young generation today. Put your product into the hands of a pro and it is not only that pro that is winning major tournaments it is the cue that has won also or the equipment. As a young player getting into the game it was Meucci for me because that was what was in the hands of some of the top pros like strickland and there was always ads in magazines and pool rooms always had the Meucci branded display case full of Meucci's. Before the 80's major sponsorship of pro players was pretty non existent. Players were using mostly random custom cues. It was the makers or manufacturers that put out production cues that was fortunate enough to capitalize on this. they had the funds to sponsor and put their product into the hands of pros. So now its production cues and shafts that young people are seeing winning major tournaments not customs. So thats why young players have no interest or even know one custom cue from another. So back to the OP. Young players are more focused on the shaft now. But good news it is still Predator and Cuetec. The butts whether made by Josswest or a butt made in the Republic of China doesnt matter to them. Putting CF into the hands of pros has almost destroyed the the image of wood shafts. They look at it as the old man and his muscle car. Trying to sell predator cues with LD wood shafts has diminished. The young buyer is looking at it like well it is a Predator but i still have to buy a Revo and leave the predator 314 in the case. So it is a big expense.
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I see young guys and gals with wood shaft Meuccis all the time at the pool halls.

I agree that the Predator fanboys are likely to want the Revo though, even though many extremely good pro pool players use Predator wood shafts (most notably Carlo Biado).
 
Lowell said:
I see young guys and gals with wood shaft Meuccis all the time at the pool halls.

I agree that the Predator fanboys are likely to want the Revo though, even though many extremely good pro pool players use Predator wood shafts (most notably Carlo Biado).
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And Koda's and Players and... yuck.
 
The only Predator I have is the bottom shaft that I had custom fitted to this cue from a Predator 314-2 FAT blank when I had Mike Pancerny convert the cue from a 1950s one-piece Titlist.

The top shaft is an ivory-ferruled Pete Tascarella.

IMG_0661.jpeg
 
jlrowe said:
I still prefer Predator LD wood shafts over CF any day. Personally, I think that the best shaft i ever had was a Predator Z2 S tuned. Of course, they are marketing genius. But, I really liked they used a lot of testing and was striving to make the best equipment available. I liked it that they had high end custom cuemakers making butts. Bill Stroud, Paul Drexler, Samsara, Jacoby and Pechauer instead of going the cheap route. Its crazy how marketing and sponsorship works. Sponsorship and marketing influenced my choice of a cue when i was young and it still influences the young generation today. Put your product into the hands of a pro and it is not only that pro that is winning major tournaments it is the cue that has won also or the equipment. As a young player getting into the game it was Meucci for me because that was what was in the hands of some of the top pros like strickland and there was always ads in magazines and pool rooms always had the Meucci branded display case full of Meucci's. Before the 80's major sponsorship of pro players was pretty non existent. Players were using mostly random custom cues. It was the makers or manufacturers that put out production cues that was fortunate enough to capitalize on this. they had the funds to sponsor and put their product into the hands of pros. So now its production cues and shafts that young people are seeing winning major tournaments not customs. So thats why young players have no interest or even know one custom cue from another. So back to the OP. Young players are more focused on the shaft now. But good news it is still Predator and Cuetec. The butts whether made by Josswest or a butt made in the Republic of China doesnt matter to them. Putting CF into the hands of pros has almost destroyed the the image of wood shafts. They look at it as the old man and his muscle car. Trying to sell predator cues with LD wood shafts has diminished. The young buyer is looking at it like well it is a Predator but i still have to buy a Revo and leave the predator 314 in the case. So it is a big expense.
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My 2 cents about custom cues vs hi end production cues
I have a small collection of cues, some are custom, some are production.
I find that a lot of custom cue makers make really nice looking cues but their hit is not that great, definitely not something that is worth what they cost. I find that a lot of custom cue makers don't have the equipment or the ability to finish the cue well enough or stabilize the wood well enough. I've seen more custom cues warp (butt section) than hi end production cues.
In my collection, most of the custom cues suffer from a wobble, slight or significant due to warped butt. Some suffer from poor finish quality, one even has a loose joint pin.
I take really good care of my cues, they are stored well. they have not been abuse and rarely played with.
I have non of these issues with my hi end production cues.
So, go custom if you collect cues just for their looks, go custom if you really can't find what you want in a hi end production cue or even mid range production (they are really much better than what they have used to be). Go custom if you know the maker and his process and his ability.
Some of today's production cues (well it's been around for a while now) introduce methods to strengthen the butt like splicing the butt, or coring it all the way, or reinforce the construction with composite materials or even not using wood at all... and of course there is the shaft, if you want CF, almost all production companies offer that options.

Of course that there are great cue makers that make great playing cues that hit a ton and could last a lifetime (I have a couple of those as well), but so many of them don't, a lot of the new makers haven't been around that long to prove their durability, so they may play great now, but can't tell how it'll be in 10-20 years.
So, if I was in the market today for a new pool cue, I would go the production route before the custom route. I would stay away from any cue, custom or production that use a propriety joint that would be a pain in the butt (pun intended) to match to different shafts.
 
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