In response to a claim about Sterling Cases damaging cues

dom_poppa said:

Another queston....

Does Sterling have the lining from top to the bottom of the case?

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Believe the answer is YES Top to Bottom.

CocoboloCowboy said:

Believe the answer is YES Top to Bottom.

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one piece? or multiple pieces stitched all the way down?

Barton's video shows him holding a small piece of lining....perhaps there are multiple pieces of lining that is stitched all the way down?

If that was the case then I can see people inserting the butt with the joint down first...and it may come into contact with a shaft. This is depending on whether it is one piece or multiple pieces stitched down to the bottom.

dom_poppa said:

Another queston....

Does Sterling have the lining from top to the bottom of the case?

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Yes, it does. But the extra padding does not go all the way down.

I describe this in this blog post from a while ago:

http://jbcases.com/caseblog/2010/01/21/mythbusting-about-wooden-cues-and-moisture/

Here is the pertinent diagram of how our cavities are structured;



I have worked very hard to come up with just the right configuration to protect the cues while allowing for the most efficient use of space.

dom_poppa said:

one piece? or multiple pieces stitched all the way down?

Barton's video shows him holding a small piece of lining....perhaps there are multiple pieces of lining that is stitched all the way down?

If that was the case then I can see people inserting the butt with the joint down first...and it may come into contact with a shaft. This is depending on whether it is one piece or multiple pieces stitched down to the bottom.

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The small piece of lining that I show is just an example of the first building block in our interior liners.

In this video I show it with a piece of EVA foam that we use as a stiffener to make the cavities act more like tubes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJYfJ8yOzkQ

The cue parts are completely separated inside our cases and it would be almost impossible for anyone to stick a butt into the case at enough angle to affect a shaft or vice versa.

Doing so would require a deliberate act of sabotage. There is virtually no way for a normal user to accidentally harm their cue with normal use of one of our cases.

Even if the cues are put in with all three shafts tips down and with the butts joint down the fit will be tight but the parts will still be separated.

If you want to see any other examples or have your questions answered then feel free to email me directly to jb@jbideas.com

I am willing to bet a lot of my own money on the interiors as I designed them in any sort of test that anyone wants to propose.

One of the things I have done is to use carbon copy paper to test whether cue parts were touching or not. Obviously carbon copy paper will register any pressure as it's meant to copy the impressions made on the surface. The results were negative - the cues do not touch enough to even make an impression on sensitive carbon copy paper. So it is highly doubtful that they would ever touch enough to actually damage the finish.

Quality Joint Protecters a very good thing!!!!

I still use and want Joint Protectors on any Cue I case up!! I have seen 1st hand what happens with Good cases falling Face first!! Try same tricks with 6 cues coming loose. good luck- Sterling has the right to question the poster- then act - mark The poster needs to accelpt responcibilty too- people make mistakes. JB is good with prevention.

dom_poppa said:

I think the Sterling cases are very well designed and the lining is different compared to other cases. I had other cases in the past and some of them rattle like Giuseppe's, who also makes a good case for the money.

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And yet Guiseppe doesn't line the interiors all the way to the bottom. Nothing cushions the cue parts from violently hitting the sides of the tubes when the case is jostled or dropped. Did you know that a cue butt can oscillate violently as it bangs against the tube multiple times when jarred in an unpadded tube? I invented the padded tube when I started Instroke and that was the premise for becoming a case maker in the first place.

I know the shafts won't touch each other because of the lining between the shafts. A piece of paper can be between those shafts and technically it's not touching but with the sock lining....it can compress the butts and the shafts to the point that pulling out a shaft out can cause contact with another piece, due to the tight space. This is sort of the downfall with the lining.

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The liner cannot compress the butts and shafts. The liner itself compresses to accommodate the parts. That is the nature of the padded cavity. It is done so that the cue parts are held snugly and securely and no allowed to rattle.

As I showed in my video there is no contact with other parts when the shafts are pulled out.

Now, I will grant you that in a case where a premium is placed on efficiency such as this 2x3 that it is prudent to pull the shafts out first and then the butt so that all the thickest parts aren't in the same space at the same time. But any user can see and feel this and quickly learns the best way to load and unload this case.

The space is not tight. I would love it if you all would stop using this term. As you can see in my video the cues go in with GENTLE pressure. This is not a tight environment. The cue parts are NOT being put under stress. They are not being compressed.

Take a nice soft cloth that you would use to polish the finish of your cue. Hold that cloth in your hand and wrap it around the cue. Now hold the cue vertically off the floor and apply just enough pressure to keep it from falling. THAT is about the amount of resistance applied to your cue in one of our cases.

Where a tube style, it may rattle, but has enough clearance/space that it won't touch another cue.

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Your cues won't touch in our interiors as well because I make them to emulate rigid tubes where it counts. And you can bet that I can break your cue if it held in a Guiseppe case with very little effort. Cases with tubes that allow the cues to rattle are very dangerous to the cues in a bunch of ways.

Let's just say the accuser, pulled a shaft out from an angle, the lining will bend with the shaft, perhaps causing it to make contact with a joint or a joint protector, depending how the cues were inserted.

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This would be a hell of an angle and would require tremendous resistance and pressure to scratch the finish on any of the parts. I think it would be patently obvious to anyone that such an angle would be well outside the bounds of proper and normal use. What you are describing sounds reasonable in theory and it's much more likely in a Justis case but it does not apply to our cases.

In any case the "accuser" showed a picture of the cues supposedly touching at the joint protectors but has thus far failed to show us a top down view.

Every time we make a case I show top down photos of the empty case and the full case.

JB & Sterling Cases

I happen to be the lucky winner of the first JB Custom case designed by me and John Barton. This case is a 3 x 6 with the same inside configuration. I have had this case since May 2008 and have had expensive cues in ths case constantly. I even have a jump cue butt in one of the SHAFT sleeves that stays in place and doesn't fall to the bottom of the case (they stretch) with no damage to any other shaft or butt.

I have had no problems with any of my cues being in this case NONE. They actually protect the butts/shafts better since they don't move around (as tube cases do). They also don't accidently fall out. Best design in a case IMO.

TWOFORPOOL said:

I happen to be the lucky winner of the first JB Custom case designed by me and John Barton. This case is a 3 x 6 with the same inside configuration. I have had this case since May 2008 and have had expensive cues in ths case constantly. I even have a jump cue butt in one of the SHAFT sleeves that stays in place and doesn't fall to the bottom of the case (they stretch) with no damage to any other shaft or butt.

I have had no problems with any of my cues being in this case NONE. They actually protect the butts/shafts better since they don't move around (as tube cases do). They also don't accidently fall out. Best design in a case IMO.

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Thank you Bob. We should also mention that your wife also ended up with a matching case. A 2x3 made with the same interior as is being discussed here.

This is Melissa's case;



Without Cues:



With Cues:



And your case:







More pictures of both cases http://www.jbcases.com/olson.html

My rubber grip on my Mezz PB1 is destroyed by the case, but that's the only problem I've had so far. I don't blame the case though considering that it is a pretty snug fit and the rubber is a little gripy, maybe I could have used a sleeve in the first place

I think Barton's design is fabolous but it's not "human" proof. The design of the case is superb if you only know how to insert them, then again why should a case come with instructions? I usually insert and zip!...and I am on my way.

I am sure there area a lot of cases that you can acquire for X amount of money but there is no denying that Barton's case is very innovative and some call it "forward thinking."

Whatever the problem is, between the two parties, I hope it gets sorted out and perhaps, John can improve on the matter, whether this story was fabricated or not.

Good luck in your future endeavors!

HJ

dom_poppa said:

I think Barton's design is fabolous but it's not "human" proof. The design of the case is superb if you only know how to insert them, then again why should a case come with instructions? I usually insert and zip!...and I am on my way.

I am sure there area a lot of cases that you can acquire for X amount of money but there is no denying that Barton's case is very innovative and some call it "forward thinking."

Whatever the problem is, between the two parties, I hope it gets sorted out and perhaps, John can improve on the matter, whether this story was fabricated or not.

Good luck in your future endeavors!

HJ

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Absolutely correct. And 99% of my customers also insert their cues and go within the first five minutes of ownership. Nothing is human proof and everything has it's pros and cons.

If you want super convenience then buy the case with the biggest openings where nothing is kept snug but everything fits. Using my Ipad as an example I can throw this $850 computer into an backpack with no padding or I can keep it in a form fitted case with some extra padding. I chose the form fitted case which I would like to think has protected it for the two times it was dropped on the floor.

Seriously, this is not a case of me TRYING to get out being responsible for someone damaging their cue while using my case. I HONESTLY with all my heart do not believe that it's possible to damage a cue while using my interior in the way that this person has said that it happened.

The person would have to be doing something that is completely outside the bounds of common sense in order to force two pieces of finished wood together in such a way as to make one of them physically damaged when inserting those pieces of wood into or removing them from my case.

Now, having said that you are right that a case shouldn't need instructions. This is a valid opinion if one is talking about one-size-fits-all cases. However when one is talking about purpose built specialty cases such as the very efficient ones that I build then sometimes a little instruction is needed. For example the GTF 2x4 cases represent a type of case that hasn't been on the market in a big way since the mid-90s when It's George quit making them. Only Ron Thomas continued them and his production numbers were too small to make an impact.

So when GTF hit the market and suddenly thousands of these cases were out there people didn't know how to load them. Go back 20 years and just about all players would know how to load them. I had people telling me that the 2x4 was only good for 2x2. So I had to make a card and an instructional video on how to load that case which applies equally well to It's George, Ron Thomas, Centennial.

But here is an instruction you will never see with any interior I make; A famous case maker puts no padding in the bottom of his cases. It's just raw wood. So he sends out a not warning people to not drop their cues in joint pin down or they might bend the joint pin.

I think I'd rather put a little EVA foam in there instead of a note like that.

JBC said:
It's much more likely in a Justis case but it does not apply to our cases.

Our interiors do not hold the cues in a death grip like yours. That is what caused the damage to the cue in question. Using our name as a smoke screen will not work for you on this one.

Jack Justis said:

JBC said:
It's much more likely in a Justis case but it does not apply to our cases.

Our interiors do not hold the cues in a death grip like yours. That is what caused the damage to the cue in question. Using our name as a smoke screen will not work for you on this one.

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A death grip?

I think you missed the two videos I did where I am pushing the cues in with a one finger. And I take them out just as easily.

There was no damage caused to the cues by our case. The fact is Jack that the situation that Dom Poppa postulated on is highly unlikely with our case and is much more likely to happen with your case, especially the ones where you used super thin nylon after the first couple inches.

Just to remind you and everyone one else, this was the interior you delivered on how many Pro-Lite cases?



Here at the top we see a little padding around the perimeter. No padding between the parts. Just a piece of fabric folded over some stiffener. Look decent right? Nice fabric anyway.



But guess what, that nice fabric and little bit of padding only go down a few inches. After that it's ultra thin nylon. Paperthin actually. And this doesn't even extend all the way down. It stops about an inch from the bottom which means that the cue parts are not prevented from banging against each other at that point.

I took these pictures when the case wasn't even mine. What you see is exactly how I saw it when I took the interior out. Which came right out easily with no tools needed.





I know you are rubbing your hands in glee at the thought that my case would be implicated in harming a person's cues. Especially since you had your own little issue when someone claimed to have had their cue harmed while using a Justis case. And you called that person a liar, told them that they had never seen a Justis, had been brainwashed by me, yada yada.... but lo and behold the person had in fact been using a Justis. And furthermore he was and still is a Justis fan. Loves your work.

So anyway, I don't happen to have side by side pix of our interior and yours and I know that you somehow feel that this lie by Monstermash validates your choice to offer almost no protection in your cases but I promise you that tomorrow I will make a new and clear video of your case and ours in a direct comparison. You are more than welcome to retaliate with a video of your own and show off all that you think is bad about my cases.

If you post $500 I will send you a case that you can do whatever you want to with on video as long as you show every single point comparatively between mine and yours. When you make that video and post it I will send the $500 back to you. I have full faith that not even you can put our cases in a negative light in a direct point-by-point comparison.

"death grip" That's funny. Yeah, the only death grip is that my cases prevent cues from "dying" as they DO NOT get banged against each other and fall out on the floor like they do in your cases.

We can have a little contest to see how quickly a cue can get damaged inside a case. Want to put up one of yours against one of mine? I will put up a $63 Sterling case against your $500+ cases.



Anyway, anyone who wants to see more pix of the Justis case I now own, they are here http://jbcases.com/cases/jflowers/history/Justispix/Get-what-you-pay-for/

And tomorrow comes another video where we compare this case point for point against JB cases. Also I wholeheartedly invite the entire AZB community to do the same. Feel free to make your own videos and compare my cases to Justis or whoever. The only thing that can possibly happen is that we all get smarter about the products we make and use.

Meanwhile here is an interesting thread where you warn people that their cues can be damaged severely in your case.

TO PREVENT PIN AND COLLAR DAMAGE by Jack Justis

Also, regarding so called "death grips" I should remind you that we offer upgrades to your stock interior called the ProPad and thank you you Jack for making it easy to remove your interiors so that Justis case owners can do the upgrade in minutes on their own.

I apologize to everyone that I don't have pictures immediately handy but I will edit this post later with images of the Justis interior upgrade. Even after selling more than100 of them I still haven't thought to actually make a webpage advertising them.

But be that as it may, over 100 hundred people have opted to upgrade their Justis cases from the stock ones that you deliver Jack without any ongoing advertising on my part. Apparently they prefer the nice snug fit and padded protection and don't feel that the cues are held in a death grip.

Here is a testimonial:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=209975&highlight=justis+interior+upgrade

One of the the threads where I advertised them for sale:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=168489&highlight=justis+interior+upgrade

Another testimonial:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=190769&highlight=justis+interior

crmdog said:

The interior was replaced with the JB replacement interior. I personally believe this is superior to the original. While using the previous interior I thought I had closed the lid but did not. Getting out of a cab my break cue hit the pavement. My boneheaded fault, but this won't happen with the interior it presently has. I should note that Jack has stated that this modification voids the warranty.

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(I highlighted the relevant part for you Jack)

And another testimonial with great pictures:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=179204&highlight=justis+interior

And one more thread with pictures:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=176773&highlight=justis+interior

Taking all odds.

Anyone want to bet I can't make him type 5 more pages of drivel?

Jack Justis said:

Anyone want to bet I can't make him type 5 more pages of drivel?

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NO Bet!

LOL

You have to admit - the man is passionate about his product.....

DWoods6354 said:

You have to admit - the man is passionate about his product.....

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John is trying his best to give out facts, I do not see any other Pool Cue Case Makers trying to do the same.

Like Santa who tried his hardest make all the children happy on December 25th. John tries real hard to educate with facts.

JB Cases said:

So anyway, I don't happen to have side by side pix of our interior and yours and I know that you somehow feel that this lie by Monstermash validates your choice to offer almost no protection in your cases but I promise you that tomorrow I will make a new and clear video of your case and ours in a direct comparison. You are more than welcome to retaliate with a video of your own and show off all that you think is bad about my cases.

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John, do you ever just shut up? Most people are very tired of your BS. I posted PHOTOS of the case with the JP's touching each other in my review. Why can't you just admit that there is a possibility that the case my girlfriend has might be defective? After all they are built in China.

The reason why Jack's cases are better is because there is enough room for the cues. Well, that and they don't trap moisture and destroy the cue. Yes, thas right you freakin' ego maniac, your cases aren't perfect. Far from it. I received a pm from another forum member who told me that your awesome padded interior trapped moisture inside and caused his cue to warp. He asked me not to mention his name so I won't. I guess he doesn't want to get a bunch of idiotic emails from you and have you start boggging all over your website and you tube calling him a liar too. He's pretty smart I think. If I had to do it all over again I wouldn't have posted my OPINION in the counterfeit thread. Then you would never have left me the negative rep and I wouldn't have to deal with your lunatic rantings.

And yet you continue to call me a liar. Show me where I lied John. Just show me and I will shut up. You know you can't because you know you're the biggest hypocrite liar on the forum. Not to mention the case she has looks completely different on the inside than the example you keep posting. The padding is much thinner and I think thats why the JP's and the shafts were touching. So whats next, are you going to start claiming that the case she has is counterfeit?

Matt Carter and I have exchanged several emails regarding the problem as well as the fact that you can't keep your mouth shut. The last email I received from him told me that your wife had the "keys" to your account and that she changed the password so we shouldn't be hearing from you. I guess that never happend did it?

Please do me and the rest of the forum a favor and just go away.

carter1984 said:

Monstermash...in an effort to resolve the issue with the case -

I am offering (since it is a Sterling case) to send you a prepaid shipping label so you can send the case to me at no charge and I can inspect it personally.

I will take pictures of the case unloaded, and fully loaded.

If it is defective I will replace it.

If it is not defective I will send it back to you, again at no cost to you.

If this sounds like a good way to resolve the issue with the case, then PM me and address and I'll send the label ASAP.

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This is a nice gesture sir!