White Diamond vs Samsara
- Thread starter geemoney
- Start date
My break cue has a Samsara tip on both shafts.
My jump cue has a White Diamond tip.
Samsara's are awesome leather tips! However, I would only put it on a dedicated break or break/jump cue.
White Diamond tips don't hold chalk as well as a Samsara tip, but are excellent with jump cues.
Since you have a Stinger, I would put a Samsara on it, for a more controlled break.
Edit -
I will add to my above statement.
Samsara tips are notorious for popping off, if not installed properly.
Saturday was my first experience with a Samsara tip. My cue guy installed one with gorilla glue gel and it lasted one rack, before being sent into orbit on the second rack. I was hitting at 23-24mph (by the Predator Break Speed iOS App). I was very impressed at how well I could control the cue ball. We went back to the lathe and installed another Samsara with epoxy. This time it lasted 3 breaks, before going into orbit. The third time's a charm, as they say. We installed the Samsara this time by using thin super glue on the tip, sanding the surface, and applying epoxy to the tip and ferrule. This time the tip lasted well past 40 racks of 10 ball at an average of 22mph. We added a Samsara to my second shaft, using the third method from the first shaft. We had high hopes, but alas the tip went back into outer space. Not once, but twice. The third tip finally stuck. Six Samsara tips down and only two remained glued to the shafts.
Only cost me $30, but I can only imagine what it cost him.
My jump cue has a White Diamond tip.
Samsara's are awesome leather tips! However, I would only put it on a dedicated break or break/jump cue.
White Diamond tips don't hold chalk as well as a Samsara tip, but are excellent with jump cues.
Since you have a Stinger, I would put a Samsara on it, for a more controlled break.
Edit -
I will add to my above statement.
Samsara tips are notorious for popping off, if not installed properly.
Saturday was my first experience with a Samsara tip. My cue guy installed one with gorilla glue gel and it lasted one rack, before being sent into orbit on the second rack. I was hitting at 23-24mph (by the Predator Break Speed iOS App). I was very impressed at how well I could control the cue ball. We went back to the lathe and installed another Samsara with epoxy. This time it lasted 3 breaks, before going into orbit. The third time's a charm, as they say. We installed the Samsara this time by using thin super glue on the tip, sanding the surface, and applying epoxy to the tip and ferrule. This time the tip lasted well past 40 racks of 10 ball at an average of 22mph. We added a Samsara to my second shaft, using the third method from the first shaft. We had high hopes, but alas the tip went back into outer space. Not once, but twice. The third tip finally stuck. Six Samsara tips down and only two remained glued to the shafts.
Only cost me $30, but I can only imagine what it cost him.
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Haven't tried the White Diamond, but I can highly recommend the Samsara for jump/break.
I got a Gilbert jump/break with hopes of replacing my old break cue and my jump cue. It came with a hard leather tip of some sort and it broke fine but I couldn't jump nearly as easily with it. (side note, it also played incredibly well...probably the best play/break/jump combo you could hope for, but I wanted it for a dedicated break/jump cue) I put a Samsara on it and it jumps pretty much just as good as my dedicated jump cue....the jump cue may have a slight edge on really close jumps....maybe.... It holds chalk well and breaks great too, provides tons of control on the cue ball but really hits hard. Love this cue with this tip on it and I've stopped carrying my dedicated jump cue now.
I got a Gilbert jump/break with hopes of replacing my old break cue and my jump cue. It came with a hard leather tip of some sort and it broke fine but I couldn't jump nearly as easily with it. (side note, it also played incredibly well...probably the best play/break/jump combo you could hope for, but I wanted it for a dedicated break/jump cue) I put a Samsara on it and it jumps pretty much just as good as my dedicated jump cue....the jump cue may have a slight edge on really close jumps....maybe.... It holds chalk well and breaks great too, provides tons of control on the cue ball but really hits hard. Love this cue with this tip on it and I've stopped carrying my dedicated jump cue now.
Never tried the White Diamond but I use a Samsara on my breaker and could not love it anymore than I do. It is great.
Odega
Samsara is very good, but the Odega from Wade Odegaard, who use to work for Samsara is the bomb. Contact him on here.
Samsara is very good, but the Odega from Wade Odegaard, who use to work for Samsara is the bomb. Contact him on here.
I myself had frustrating experiences getting tips to stay glued on...even sometimes after using 3 or 4 different kinds of glue. Most of my frustrations have been with the White Diamond tip. No matter what glue I used (and yes, I scored and/or sanded the glue side of the tip and ferrule) I couldn't get the darn things to stay on for more than a few breaks. I finally got one to stay on using a 2-part epoxy. I have probably broke around 30 times now...and it's still on.
As far as Samsara tips go...It's my favorite break/jump tip. Like others have said...it holds chalk well and gives you more control than a lot of hard "break tips" out there. I have only had a small amount of trouble keeping the Samsara tips glued on. I seriously think you just have to find the right combination of glue and ferrule material to make certain brands of tips stick. I've had ferrules that I had problems getting any kind of glue to work on.
I almost always glue my tips on using 2-part epoxy now. It keeps a sort of tackiness about it that helps with the adhesion process. The downside of this is that if you bring me a shaft to re-tip...you will more than likely not get it back until the next day as I give the glue more than ample time to set.
Maniac
He ended up using some sort of epoxy and let it set for an hour. Whatever it was, it got hot. After 15 minutes, the ferrule was still warm.
I have had both of these tips on my break cue and if your looking for control I would go with the Samsara tip, personally I like the white diamond because I don't have to hit the break as hard. On the issue of the tips falling off I have had equal problems with both of these tips coming off my break cue.
I liked the WD tip but it kept popping off on me. The Samsaras I have had have not. Both put on by my cue repair guy that I have used for the last 20 plus years. The WD is the only one I have ever had issue with. If it would have stayed on I would have kept using it.
On a side note, I like the Ultraskin HH for breaking even better than the samsara but it doesn't jump worth a darn. Ok for me since I don't jump 99.9% of the time.
On a side note, I like the Ultraskin HH for breaking even better than the samsara but it doesn't jump worth a darn. Ok for me since I don't jump 99.9% of the time.
I've used both and I would say if your stroke isn't the greatest your stoke isn't the greatest then you're gonna have more success with the samsara tip which is more forgiving if not hit squarely. But if you have a good break stroke then you're gonna benefit more from a white diamond tip. Less power more action, I use predator chalk and it holds that on really good, I can squat my cue ball just as easy with the samsara tip I find myself drawing it back most of the time. and if you want to crush the balls you can really get power with the W/D. The Samsara is good but when it wears down it is prone to popping layers off. So If you got a good break stroke I don't see how you can beat a W/D compared to a Samsara. If you want control work on your stroke.
i've used both and prefer the white diamond. the samsara definitely holds chalk better but that is a non issue for me. i'm hitting center ball anyways and practice breaking without chalking to make sure i condition myself to hit center. the samsara is nice but white diamond works better, easier to determine the speed i want whereas the samsara i generally have to hit a little harder.
dunno what you guys are doing with your tips but i've had 2 samsaras and 3 white diamonds installed over the years and never had any popping off or anything like that.
dunno what you guys are doing with your tips but i've had 2 samsaras and 3 white diamonds installed over the years and never had any popping off or anything like that.
Like I said....the ferrule material may mean all the difference with different types/brands of glue. Your installer may have hit the right combination from the get-go on your cue or cues.
I've never had any problems with ANY other tip other than the White Diamond.
Maniac
Break tips
it doesn't matter the break tip used. ALL break tips will have the propensity to pop off if their not done properly.. Even the best tip guy will have an occasional pop off, but it should be an occasional exception, not the rule, like it seems like some of you guys have had... Break tips are fickle, and HAVE to be done with the proper steps, or they will pop off, period. A lot of installers don't even want to do them, cause they honestly don't know how to do them correctly, and they end up throwing money down a hole when they have to do it more than one time for you...
Here's a quick run down of the key things to a break tip install:
- Face the ferrule COMPLETELY flat. I cannot stress this enough. It always matters with a tip install, but more so with a break tip because a break tip will not compress around a slightly domed ferrule, like a softer playing leather tip will when pressure is applied during the setting of the glue.
- Lightly score the tip and ferrule. Lightly, not a gouge. Gives the glue a better area to bond.
- wipe the ferrule and back of of the tip off with an alcohol swab. Gets any dust, debris, or oils from your fingers off. Let it dry for a few seconds before applying the glue.
- Apply a drop of cyano (Super glue). DONT USE OLD GLUE!!! Don't be cheap, if you even think your glue is more than a few months old, please go spend the $2 or $3 and get a new tube (I suspect this is probably the second main reason for tips popping off, right behind an improperly faced ferrule)... Don't apply too much glue either. Basic rule of thumb is to use a drop about half the diameter of the tip. Trust me, it's plenty of glue..
- Apply tip to ferrule. Get it centered and set quickly. If it's not centered properly fast enough and you have to 'break' the initial setting (you'll know, cause you'll feel it, barely, but you'll feel it), then start over. If you don't, you'll be installing another tip on it after a few breaks (trust me here, I learned the hard way)..
- Once centered, apply pressure with your finger or thumb for at least a minute.. I don't know how much it matters or not, but I was told long ago to NOT use excessive pressure, so I don't, and it works..
- Lastly... Please let it dry/set properly... I know some guys will tell you you can go ahead and use it after 10 or 15 mins, but I'm not one of them.. Im fine with you using a freshly installed playing top after a few mins but not a break tip.. I won't even do a same day break tip install. If you want it done by me, and done right, you can have the patience to wait a day for it.. :thumbup: Just the way it is...
As for the tips in question here from the original OP. Both are great break tips. And as many other have mentioned, the Samsara will give you more control (its leather after all) than the White Diamond (its not leather). It's much easier to jump with the White Diamond, and the White Diamond will give you slightly more power with less force.. There may be some formats/tournaments /leagues that do not allow the use of White Diamonds (not completely sure which, if even any), but I've never heard of the Samsaras not being allowed for use..
I sell both, and at a better price than just about anywhere. If your interested in one of either, just do a search for my threads in the for sale forum, or send me a PM..
I also do install for those of you who have no where else to turn to get your tip done. I have players from all over ship me stuff to work on, and the turnaround for tips is usually the same or next day. ..
Pics are of a few White Diamonds, and a freshly installed one....
Rain-Man
it doesn't matter the break tip used. ALL break tips will have the propensity to pop off if their not done properly.. Even the best tip guy will have an occasional pop off, but it should be an occasional exception, not the rule, like it seems like some of you guys have had... Break tips are fickle, and HAVE to be done with the proper steps, or they will pop off, period. A lot of installers don't even want to do them, cause they honestly don't know how to do them correctly, and they end up throwing money down a hole when they have to do it more than one time for you...
Here's a quick run down of the key things to a break tip install:
- Face the ferrule COMPLETELY flat. I cannot stress this enough. It always matters with a tip install, but more so with a break tip because a break tip will not compress around a slightly domed ferrule, like a softer playing leather tip will when pressure is applied during the setting of the glue.
- Lightly score the tip and ferrule. Lightly, not a gouge. Gives the glue a better area to bond.
- wipe the ferrule and back of of the tip off with an alcohol swab. Gets any dust, debris, or oils from your fingers off. Let it dry for a few seconds before applying the glue.
- Apply a drop of cyano (Super glue). DONT USE OLD GLUE!!! Don't be cheap, if you even think your glue is more than a few months old, please go spend the $2 or $3 and get a new tube (I suspect this is probably the second main reason for tips popping off, right behind an improperly faced ferrule)... Don't apply too much glue either. Basic rule of thumb is to use a drop about half the diameter of the tip. Trust me, it's plenty of glue..
- Apply tip to ferrule. Get it centered and set quickly. If it's not centered properly fast enough and you have to 'break' the initial setting (you'll know, cause you'll feel it, barely, but you'll feel it), then start over. If you don't, you'll be installing another tip on it after a few breaks (trust me here, I learned the hard way)..
- Once centered, apply pressure with your finger or thumb for at least a minute.. I don't know how much it matters or not, but I was told long ago to NOT use excessive pressure, so I don't, and it works..
- Lastly... Please let it dry/set properly... I know some guys will tell you you can go ahead and use it after 10 or 15 mins, but I'm not one of them.. Im fine with you using a freshly installed playing top after a few mins but not a break tip.. I won't even do a same day break tip install. If you want it done by me, and done right, you can have the patience to wait a day for it.. :thumbup: Just the way it is...
As for the tips in question here from the original OP. Both are great break tips. And as many other have mentioned, the Samsara will give you more control (its leather after all) than the White Diamond (its not leather). It's much easier to jump with the White Diamond, and the White Diamond will give you slightly more power with less force.. There may be some formats/tournaments /leagues that do not allow the use of White Diamonds (not completely sure which, if even any), but I've never heard of the Samsaras not being allowed for use..
I sell both, and at a better price than just about anywhere. If your interested in one of either, just do a search for my threads in the for sale forum, or send me a PM..
I also do install for those of you who have no where else to turn to get your tip done. I have players from all over ship me stuff to work on, and the turnaround for tips is usually the same or next day. ..
Pics are of a few White Diamonds, and a freshly installed one....
Rain-Man
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I've used both on my BK2, and I think they're both really great tips. I initially had the Samsara when I ordered it, and it worked great for about 2 years before the leather started chipping away and I had to get it replaced. I ended up getting a white diamond based on recommendation, and it took some getting used to, but to me, they're practically identical. They're both great as playing tips, too, although I lean very slightly toward the samsara if you're thinking about an all-in-one tip.
I break couple times with White Diamond tip on a BK2 cue, and I don't like it much, I think it doesn't' holds chalk good.
I really don't understand all the white diamond haters here. White Diamond tips are the
best brake tips I have ever used. I never had a tip pop off. I used lock tite two part epoxy.
Never had a problem with the tip not accepting chalk. No Its not leather. Website says specially
Selected fiber. Safe on cue balls and legal when phenolic is not. Tried Samsara. Wasnt impressed.
Like it way better then phenolic. Down side....they are a ***** to install without a lathe. No reason for me
to use anything else.
best brake tips I have ever used. I never had a tip pop off. I used lock tite two part epoxy.
Never had a problem with the tip not accepting chalk. No Its not leather. Website says specially
Selected fiber. Safe on cue balls and legal when phenolic is not. Tried Samsara. Wasnt impressed.
Like it way better then phenolic. Down side....they are a ***** to install without a lathe. No reason for me
to use anything else.