The Lag

Maniac · Feb 28, 2020

boyraks said:
Ever watched football.?

What are you gonna do in a football game, have the two teams two fastest players run a 40-yard dash to see who gets the ball first? :thumbup:

Besides, football is played in two halves where the team that loses the flip has the option of getting the ball first in the second half.

Winner breaks....should we stop the match halfway through with a player on a 6-pack to let the opponent have his/her option to break?

Apples to oranges.

Maniac

garczar · Feb 28, 2020

misterpoole said:
Life is too short to be practicing the lag. Then there are occassions when its very close and your opponent asks for someone to 'measure'. It can get the match off to a bad start.
Dont be a nit and just flip it

Hey BP we need to make some t-shirts: "Don't be a nit. Flip it and rip it".

strmanglr scott · Feb 28, 2020

I don't have any issues with the using a lag, I'd prefer it.

But, I'll say it again, if everywhere I'm playing is using the coin flip and that's what the tourney I'm at is using, that's what I'm doing.

pt109 · Feb 28, 2020

On a lag, if a player fouls the cue ball and it crosses the balk line, do you call it?

I arm wrestled a guy for first break once....I lost...%$#^ buggy whip arms. :angry:

angluse · Feb 28, 2020

In case you have the ear of your TD, maybe something to suggest to him:

A tournament I frequent had the rule simply, "flip or lag," but occasionally an APA player would pop in. Most of the tournament regulars preferred to flip, maybe since they didn't have regular opportunity to practice lag like the APAers did. So the TD adjusted the rule: "if lag is requested, you must lag," but he didn't mention this in the announced rules, not unless asked. If the uninformed, lag-preferring player went to ask the TD, then he would disclose.
This seemed a decent compromise to me - the regulars would push for flip, just holding up the coin, and usually it went that way. Only when the opponent made a point of asking the TD, would the flipper be forced to relent.

Bob Jewett · Feb 28, 2020

AF pool guy said:
I can’t believe that no one has suggested that flipping a metal disc with a sharp-ish edge onto a piece of expensive fabric that is tightly stretched over a slab of rock may not be that great for playing conditions in the long run....

Probably better for the table than the 400-rated players with their jump cues.:wink:

Bob Jewett · Feb 28, 2020

pt109 said:
On a lag, if a player fouls the cue ball and it crosses the balk line, do you call it?... :

There are lots of ways to lose the lag other than not getting yours as close as the other guy. Some of them are in the rules. For those who missed it the first time here is history's worst lag (and these guys are playing for $60,000 first prize):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bTnTIDP1To&feature=youtu.be&t=9

I suppose it is better not to have the rack on the table when lagging.

Bob Jewett · Feb 28, 2020

Many years ago in a 9 ball tournament, my opponent didn't want to lag at all. He was known for being a little "thorny." I said, "That's OK, you can break." He was confused and angry.

It's important to remember that except at the top level, the smash break is very little advantage and for most players it is a disadvantage. Or at least that used to be the case. Tight racks (Sardo, tapping, templates) have changed that some for some.

garczar · Feb 28, 2020

AF pool guy said:
I can’t believe that no one has suggested that flipping a metal disc with a sharp-ish edge onto a piece of expensive fabric that is tightly stretched over a slab of rock may not be that great for playing conditions in the long run.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Please. Gimme a break. Unless you're using some big-ass heavy coin you aren't going to damage the cloth from flipping.

Maniac · Feb 28, 2020

Bob Jewett said:
It's important to remember that except at the top level, the smash break is very little advantage and for most players it is a disadvantage. Or at least that used to be the case. Tight racks (Sardo, tapping, templates) have changed that some for some.

In the amateur 8-ball leagues that I've played in where each ball pocketed does not count as a point, I didn't care if I broke or not. Once my opponent missed, I usually found my run out easier without all his/her balls on the table. And the further along he/she made balls before missing, the better off I was.

I believe that's referred to as "8-ball hell".

Maniac

fastone371 · Feb 28, 2020

Bob Jewett said:
There are lots of ways to lose the lag other than not getting yours as close as the other guy. Some of them are in the rules. For those who missed it the first time here is history's worst lag (and these guys are playing for $60,000 first prize):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bTnTIDP1To&feature=youtu.be&t=9

I suppose it is better not to have the rack on the table when lagging.

It looked like he was trying to pocket the cue ball, maybe he didnt want to break???

CocoboloCowboy · Feb 28, 2020

peppersauce said:
Have any of you folks ever experienced any push back from an opponent when asking to lag instead of flip in leagues or tournaments? Is it considered rude to ask for a lag if everyone in the tournament or league is flipping for the break?

My wife and I were talking about random stuff while playing a set and the subject of the lag came up. She mentioned that some people take offense if you ask to lag instead of flip, as it can be considered poor etiquette. I had never thought about it and never had that experience myself, at least not that I noticed. I usually just do what everyone else is doing. The only exception is if I’m playing alternate break and it’s an important match. I prefer to lag because I want the break if the match goes hill-hill, and I’d rather not leave it up to chance.

What do you folks think?

You have a TD at most events, if the question comes up, dump it on the TD, and live with reply.

Bob Jewett · Feb 29, 2020

fastone371 said:
It looked like he was trying to pocket the cue ball, maybe he didn't want to break???

There is a story of two 1930s billiards champions in some big match where neither of them wanted to break. The lags ended up in the middle of the table. The "unfortunate" player who won the lag broke and ran out the game. In that game as is the case for the game in the link, the winner of the lag chooses who must break.

You don't win the break with the lag, you win the choice of who will break.

brigeton · Feb 29, 2020

strmanglr scott said:
This has nothing to do with etiquette, or any other bullshit machoism.

The majority of the tourneys around here play the coin flip. If someone asked me to lag, I'd tell them to get bent. I'm not practicing my lag and anyone who asks to lag obviously has a pretty good and practiced lag. Obviously giving them the advantage, why would I do that?

This question is a no brainer to me and about as straight forward as they come.

Anyone who asked to lag, has confidence in it, do you?

I agree with Scott. All the weekly tournaments around here are flip for break so I have no reason to practice my lag. I did hear one player ask another to lag the other day.
I'm not sure if I'd agree to lag or not. I think most of the time in 8 ball at least where I play it's about 50/50 whether they're going to make a ball on the break anyway.
BTW Scott, what does the first part of your screen name mean?

JazzyJeff87 · Feb 29, 2020

brigeton said:
I agree with Scott. All the weekly tournaments around here are flip for break so I have no reason to practice my lag. I did hear one player ask another to lag the other day.
I'm not sure if I'd agree to lag or not. I think most of the time in 8 ball at least where I play it's about 50/50 whether they're going to make a ball on the break anyway.
BTW Scott, what does the first part of your screen name mean?

Stream. It’s nothing so cool as “straight / Street mangler” :thumbup:

Now I wasn’t dissing the name lol. I had just come up with those two possibilities before finally learning the truth in the “forum name” thread

peppersauce · Feb 29, 2020

strmanglr scott said:
This has nothing to do with etiquette, or any other bullshit machoism.

The majority of the tourneys around here play the coin flip. If someone asked me to lag, I'd tell them to get bent. I'm not practicing my lag and anyone who asks to lag obviously has a pretty good and practiced lag. Obviously giving them the advantage, why would I do that?

This question is a no brainer to me and about as straight forward as they come.

Anyone who asked to lag, has confidence in it, do you?

Well, obviously I wouldn’t ask for a lag if the rules state that you must flip for the break...much the same as I wouldn’t ask to flip if the rule was to lag. That’s common sense.

However, if I knew I had the option and I knew it bothered you that much to lag, we’d be lagging every time we played.

I honestly don’t care either way most of the time. My wife doesn’t either. It’s just something we talked about and I was curious because, like I said, I’d never experienced any pushback on the rare occasion I do ask for a lag when people are flipping and there were no clear rules about it.

strmanglr scott · Feb 29, 2020

peppersauce said:
Well, obviously I wouldn’t ask for a lag if the rules state that you must flip for the break...much the same as I wouldn’t ask to flip if the rule was to lag. That’s common sense.

However, if I knew I had the option and I knew it bothered you that much to lag, we’d be lagging every time we played.

I honestly don’t care either way most of the time. My wife doesn’t either. It’s just something we talked about and I was curious because, like I said, I’d never experienced any pushback on the rare occasion I do ask for a lag when people are flipping and there were no clear rules about it.

As usual on the forum people read too much into things.

I'm playing how the tourney is set up. Period. I don't care if it's lag or flip. If I've been going to the same tourney each week and it's lag for break, don't ask me to flip and conversely. Don't know how I can make it any simpler than that.

peppersauce · Feb 29, 2020

peppersauce said:
Well, obviously I wouldn’t ask for a lag if the rules state that you must flip for the break...much the same as I wouldn’t ask to flip if the rule was to lag. That’s common sense.

strmanglr scott said:
As usual on the forum people read too much into things.

I'm playing how the tourney is set up. Period. I don't care if it's lag or flip. If I've been going to the same tourney each week and it's lag for break, don't ask me to flip and conversely. Don't know how I can make it any simpler than that.

Isn’t that what I just said? :smile:

Maniac · Feb 29, 2020

strmanglr scott said:
As usual on the forum people read too much into things.

Or...have low reading comprehension skills.

Maniac

Racky BallBoa · Mar 1, 2020

I prefer the "heads I win, tails you lose" flip of the coin.

The Lag

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