9 Ball Ghost Skeptics, Meet You Tube

TATE · Oct 8, 2006

There were a lot of words exchanged about whether or not players here can beat the ghost.

I can tell you there are a lot of good players here and they can and do beat the ghost. I am known here for collecting cues and hang out in the cue gallery and wanted/for sale space, helping ID cues and showing my collection. In the ghost thread, I stated that I have a tight, fast table at home - 4" corners and 4 1/2" sides, and I regularly beat the ghost. It was met with skepticism.

Now I am not quite in stroke at the moment. I've played only a few hours a month in the last six months and haven't been to any pool rooms. I've been working on other things in life and just didn't have the fire in the belly for pool. I took the summer off and my plan was to take it up again in the fall.

It takes me a week or two to get back in stroke. I decided to play the ghost and get in stroke. I also picked up a digital camcorder and recorded several of the sessions. Being a little out of stroke means being more out-of-line, so it makes the shotmaking more exciting to watch.

Posting the videos is a major pain in the ass. The files are huge. I broke them down by game. I guarantee you the following is 8 sequential games, for those who might still be skeptical.

I hope everyone enjoys these videos and finds them entertaining. They are presented game by game with commentary. So please turn on your sound and watch my match two nights ago with the ghost - in a race to 7. Rules are BIH after break, fouls on the break allowed, any miss is a loss, all other 9 ball rules in effect.

Game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQanXa4d6uk

Game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV2Vb2_u1q8

Game 3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUgntGOswyk

Game 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty_JUfhkoak

Game 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFpPljCWhLE

Game 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp32VsS5A3Q

Game 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDZ1m3CwbE

Game 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT9hNzUiBg4

Chris

recoveryjones · Oct 8, 2006

Hi Tate,

You shoot fast and you shoot good.Despite getting a little out of shape a few times, you made it look like a walk in the park.I wouldn't want to play you for any cash now, let alone when you shake the rust off.Looks like those local Filipinos helped bring your game up a notch.

That's a really nice table you have there and yes those pockets appear to be quite tight.Screw the skeptics, as you've boldly posted up on U tube.I hope to do the same some day and hope others will as well.Thanks for sharing with the crew,much appreciated.

RJ

laser2507 · Oct 8, 2006

Nice shooting. If your ever over here in the UK would love to give you a game, you'd be the favourite though

poolhall maven · Oct 8, 2006

Great shooting Tate! Nice to put a face with the name.
btw we sold that cue...
Tracy

JG-in-KY · Oct 8, 2006

Great shooting Chris. What is your playing cue?

Snake · Oct 8, 2006

Hey TATE awesome shooting! Thanks for posting your video, the commentary is cool also. BTW I played you a couple of years ago in a USPPA tourny at Billiard Connection in Northridge. I see you haven't lost your touch. Have a good day. Peace.

snake

deep · Oct 8, 2006

Nice shooting Chris! I really enjoyed the vids and i thought the commentary was very cool, its very interesting to listen what your thinking as you go through the rack.

TATE · Oct 8, 2006

recoveryjones said:
Hi Tate,

You shoot fast and you shoot good.Despite getting a little out of shape a few times, you made it look like a walk in the park.I wouldn't want to play you for any cash now, let alone when you shake the rust off.Looks like those local Filipinos helped bring your game up a notch.

That's a really nice table you have there and yes those pockets appear to be quite tight.Screw the skeptics, as you've boldly posted up on U tube.I hope to do the same some day and hope others will as well.Thanks for sharing with the crew,much appreciated.

RJ

Hi RJ,

I figure for all the action I'll lose with this video, there will be many great players who will step up to drill me, so I can only come out ahead!

The Filipinos have taught me several things. The first one is to leave your wallet at home. The second one is don't play them cheap. The third one is don't play them large either.

Ernesto Dominguez is a terrific table mechanic. He and his son Oscar set my table up. It's an entry-level Olhausen we bought when we first moved into this house 14 years ago. Ernesto made the cheapie table play like a million. He cut new cushions from German rubber, and the table has Simonis, well streched. It wasn't breaking well when the tapes were made because it was wet that night.

Here's a pic of the corners, which are tight but fair. The sides are only 4 1/2" - a little too tight in my opinion, because it takes certain shots completely away.

Besides accuracy, the thing nobody mentions about tight pockets is it makes blocking balls much larger, so you have to play shots to every pocket on the table and get tight position. There is no such thing as an easy shot on this table.

TATE · Oct 8, 2006

JG-in-KY said:
Great shooting Chris. What is your playing cue?

This is a Joss West by Bill Stroud. It was made for Corey Harper originally probably 3 or 4 years ago. I bought it from Corey because it matched my specs for weight, length, and I always have been a JW fan.

The cue is 60", 18.5 ounces and it came with two conventional shafts and a Predator shaft Bill made for the cue. It is interesting that Corey did not like the Predator but I did not like the conventional shafts and adapted very quickly to the Predator. For a long cue, it is very solid. I am comfortable that this cue will do what I ask of it. The balance is superb - perfectly nuetral to me.

The wrap is a Tiger stack leather, which is absolutely fantastic. This really made the cue. It's the best of both worlds. It feels like a wrapless but is warm and not too sticky. The tip is a Sniper by Tiger, which I think is the best of all worlds and a great combo with the Predator 314. To me, this cue is ideal and I wouldn't trade it for anything else.

Chris

Colin Colenso · Oct 8, 2006

Thanks for the effort in putting those vids up Chris.

A lot of guys can learn a lot from watching you shoot. You've sure done some miles around the table. Doesn't look flash, but you play smart and straight. You've got that whitey on a pretty good rope too.

Maybe that is just your 9-ball ghost break, but seems if you had a stronger break you'd be a tough match for the pros.

Colin

TATE · Oct 8, 2006

Colin Colenso said:
Thanks for the effort in putting those vids up Chris.

A lot of guys can learn a lot from watching you shoot. You've sure done some miles around the table. Doesn't look flash, but you play smart and straight. You've got that whitey on a pretty good rope too.

Maybe that is just your 9-ball ghost break, but seems if you had a stronger break you'd be a tough match for the pros.

Colin

Thank you Colin. You nailed it. I have a terrible break. I feel like my break is so bad, it's like spotting the pros the 7. It's why I lost to a pro in my last tournament. We were hill/hill and I broke weakly, didn't make a ball, and my opponent easily ran out.

I really need to work on it. The table was wet too so it was breaking worse than normal. I was trying to get power a little too hard.

Maybe you can help me with it when we meet up in Shanghai next month. I'm bringing my sneaky pete with me. It's a duplicate of my playing cue as far as length and weight, with a Predator shaft.

I am really looking forward to meeting you! I hope it all ends up working out with your schedule.

Chris

Dead Money · Oct 8, 2006

Cool videos

Colin Colenso · Oct 8, 2006

TATE said:
Thank you Colin. You nailed it. I have a terrible break. I feel like my break is so bad, it's like spotting the pros the 7. It's why I lost to a pro in my last tournament. We were hill/hill and I broke weakly, didn't make a ball, and my opponent easily ran out.

I really need to work on it. The table was wet too so it was breaking worse than normal. I was trying to get power a little too hard.

Maybe you can help me with it when we meet up in Shanghai next month. I'm bringing my sneaky pete with me. It's a duplicate of my playing cue as far as length and weight, with a Predator shaft.

I am really looking forward to meeting you! I hope it all ends up working out with your schedule.

Chris

Mate,
I'll be happy to help you with the break!

Before the North American Open I thought I had a pretty good break. Heck, I was a national level shot putter, so I thought I had a big break....but after seeing a lot of pros breaking I realized that I was both short on power and accuracy. Especially accuracy when hitting hard. I made 4 balls on breaks out of 19 or 20 attempts there. That was partly bad luck, but a lot of the reason was poor accuracy when trying to pick up the speed. I had been practicing a more controlled angle break in the lead up but it didn't work on the tables at the tourney. So I had to start bashing the crapper out of the balls.

Anyway, I watched how people broke all week there and worked hard on it for several weeks and feel I have pretty much cracked the power break code. In Reno I made a ball about 12 from 16 breaks. 75% which was pretty much repeatable in practice...among the best in the event. This helped me make 5 (31.25%) break and runs...and meant I could probably make 45% break and runs if my run out game was a bit more tuned.

The method I used was basically to shorten my bridge, move my back hand up from the butt end of the cue about 5" (very important for developing rapid accelleration [ a muscle {biceps, front delts and pecs here} contracts with more force when it is shorter]), pause on the backswing ever so slightly, get the body (shoulder esp.) lunging forward just at the right time, having a loose wrist at the back of the swing but squeezing it tight as heck just before impact with the CB. Practice this a lot so I could control the CB hit dead center or slightly below and pay attention to my line on bridge positioning so I would hit the 1-ball at about 6" left of the center of the bottom rail, with CB positioned about 3/4 of a diamond to the right of the center of the box. This makes the CB come back up the line of the center of the table most times.

The main thing was the extra power I could create consistantly making the balls explode well.

I create so much more power now that I get a sore wrist after each time I play and have more than 10 breaks. I even played some 9-ball the other day and was spreading the balls more than I ever had, often making 2, 3 or 4 balls off the break. The good thing is in 9-ball I could tone it down a notch and still have a good chance of controlling the CB and still be confident of making a ball on a high percentage of breaks.

Anyway, when you get here, we'll do some experimenting and see if we can add a few mph to that break of yours

Colin

recoveryjones · Oct 8, 2006

Hi Collin,

I like your post on improving break speed and accuracy.The hard part I have is in getting the timing down on that weight shift lunge you are talking about.
Everything else mentioned seems to be not that difficult to pull off.
Are any pointers possible with out one being there in person?

RJ

ps. this is getting off topic and maybe we could start a breaking thread.

TATE · Oct 8, 2006

Colin Colenso said:
Mate,
I'll be happy to help you with the break!

Before the North American Open I thought I had a pretty good break. Heck, I was a national level shot putter, so I thought I had a big break....but after seeing a lot of pros breaking I realized that I was both short on power and accuracy. Especially accuracy when hitting hard. I made 4 balls on breaks out of 19 or 20 attempts there. That was partly bad luck, but a lot of the reason was poor accuracy when trying to pick up the speed. I had been practicing a more controlled angle break in the lead up but it didn't work on the tables at the tourney. So I had to start bashing the crapper out of the balls.

Anyway, I watched how people broke all week there and worked hard on it for several weeks and feel I have pretty much cracked the power break code. In Reno I made a ball about 12 from 16 breaks. 75% which was pretty much repeatable in practice...among the best in the event. This helped me make 5 (31.25%) break and runs...and meant I could probably make 45% break and runs if my run out game was a bit more tuned.

The method I used was basically to shorten my bridge, move my back hand up from the butt end of the cue about 5" (very important for developing rapid accelleration [ a muscle {biceps, front delts and pecs here} contracts with more force when it is shorter]), pause on the backswing ever so slightly, get the body (shoulder esp.) lunging forward just at the right time, having a loose wrist at the back of the swing but squeezing it tight as heck just before impact with the CB. Practice this a lot so I could control the CB hit dead center or slightly below and pay attention to my line on bridge positioning so I would hit the 1-ball at about 6" left of the center of the bottom rail, with CB positioned about 3/4 of a diamond to the right of the center of the box. This makes the CB come back up the line of the center of the table most times.

The main thing was the extra power I could create consistantly making the balls explode well.

I create so much more power now that I get a sore wrist after each time I play and have more than 10 breaks. I even played some 9-ball the other day and was spreading the balls more than I ever had, often making 2, 3 or 4 balls off the break. The good thing is in 9-ball I could tone it down a notch and still have a good chance of controlling the CB and still be confident of making a ball on a high percentage of breaks.

Anyway, when you get here, we'll do some experimenting and see if we can add a few mph to that break of yours

Colin

Colin,

Great post. That's a tremendous break and run percentage.

Your post is my "breaking bible" now. I'll get some practice in and see what I can come up with. I'll also try to keep track of balls made on the break so I can have something to guage the effectiveness and be able to judge improvement.

Chris

Colin Colenso · Oct 8, 2006

recoveryjones said:
Hi Collin,

I like your post on improving break speed and accuracy.The hard part I have is in getting the timing down on that weight shift lunge you are talking about.
Everything else mentioned seems to be not that difficult to pull off.
Are any pointers possible with out one being there in person?

RJ

ps. this is getting off topic and maybe we could start a breaking thread.

RJ,
Hard to explain precisely (I should make a video). But basically the body begins its lunge forward just before the cue pauses slightly on the backswing. If you drive hard with the legs, jumping into the shot, it can add even more power, but the exact timing takes some work.

I suggest people try it at 80% effort for each aspect and just practice it over and over and gradually build up the power as your get more control.

The reason for the lunge forward is not simply for forward momentum as many would imagine, though that is a part of it. The forward movement of the shoulder places the muscles (particularly the front deltoids, upper pecs, lats and biceps) into an eccentric contraction, which means they will contract with more force.

When they contract rapidly, a lot of force is placed on the wrist as it flexes back and then contracts eccentrically delivering the final powerful blow.

I recommend a light (19oz) and stiff cue for this.

Colin

jjinfla · Oct 8, 2006

Now that I watched the videos I know that I suck. And you lose to the Philippinos? Damn. There is a lot more to this game than I will ever learn.

There are no really good players around here. I doubt that any of them can beat the ghost. I now realize that the reason some players are considered good is that they have no competition.

I was telling a few players here this morning about how people can do what you just did and they looked at me like I was crazy. seeing is believing. I will have to show them the video.

Jake

deep · Oct 8, 2006

Colin Colenso said:
The method I used was basically to shorten my bridge, move my back hand up from the butt end of the cue about 5" (very important for developing rapid accelleration [ a muscle {biceps, front delts and pecs here} contracts with more force when it is shorter])

This is something i started doing a few weeks ago and its really helped my break a lot. Great post Colin, very helpful.

OriontheHunter · Oct 8, 2006

Thanks for the post. I think the "ghost" needs to find another house to haunt, because he will never win against you. Enjoyed the commentary very much.

rossaroni · Oct 8, 2006

Good shooting Tate! I think much of the agruments about the ghost, had to do with the rules played. I have always played the ghost like you do. BIH after the break and scratches on the break don't matter. That's the way I have always seen the ghost played. I would really like to see someone to beat the ghost w/o BIH- that is how many say that is how they play it. Again, good job!

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