The question is whether there is any benefit of a LD shaft if my maple shaft already has the same pivot point as the LD shaft.
Low D shafts vs shaft pivot point
- Thread starter Dan White
- Start date
The question is whether there is any benefit of a LD shaft if my maple shaft already has the same pivot point as the LD shaft.
If an old maple shaft had the same "natural pivot length" as a new LD shaft, then either the new LD shaft is not LD or the old maple shaft is LD. LD shafts have much less CB deflection and a much longer "natural pivot length" than typical solid maple shafts. An example comparison can be found in the following video:
Lots of comparison data for a wide range of shafts can be found here:
Things that make CB deflection less for an LD shaft are described here:
LD shafts do offer some advantage over non-LD shafts per the info here:
Carbon fiber LD shafts offer some additional advantages per the info here:
FYI, an easy and reliable procedure for measuring the natural pivot length of a shaft can be found here:
The "effective pivot point" is different for every shot, based on shot speed, shot distance, cut angle, type and amount of spin, cue elevation, and conditions. That's why "natural pivot length" is a better measure when comparing shafts.
Concerning techniques for how to adjust one's aim when using sidespin over a wide range of shots, see:
and:
With SAWS, one can use any cue (with any natural pivot length) and any bridge length and still aim effectively when using sidespin.
Regards,
Dave
Last edited:
Yes. If you define LD as a shaft having a pivot point of x inches or longer, then LD simply means any shaft with a pivot point x inches or longer and non-LD means any shaft with a pivot point shorter than x inches. There's no common definition of where that cutoff is - probably somewhere around 12 inches or so depending on who's doing the defining.
Not sure I get the question, but...
The actual pivot point is just the actual pivot point - whether or not it's ideal is up to you. I think mine (~20 inches) is ideal for me. You might like one shorter or even longer (good luck finding that).
EDIT: If you're asking whether the actual pivot point is the "ideal" vs. the effective pivot point: I wouldn't put it that way - I'd say the actual ("pure") pivot point is the one that only accounts for squirt (and doesn't change from shot to shot) and the effective pivot point takes into account other variables (swerve, etc.) unique to each shot.
pj
chgo
Last edited:
Best observation of all. I just hit the ball too.
Dr Dave.... correct me if I'm wrong, but there is an advantage.
A maple shaft of 12 mm in diameter MAY have the same pivot point of a 13mm LD. If you can play with a 12 mm standard, do it. But one can continue to say a 12mm LD shaft will probably have a longer pivot point then the standard 12mm
That's what Predator did with the Z shaft. It's a thinner 314.
If you have a standard 13mm shaft that has the same pivot point of a 13mm LD, you are very lucky.
Last edited:
Curious as to what kind of shaft do you have? I've seen some fairly low def. maple but not a low as a good LD.
A guy named George from Brooklyn made the shafts back in the 1960's. 12.75mm diameter. Maybe he was LD before LD was cool.
What’s baffling is how all the experts can’t hit a pool ball into a hole twice it’s size from 8 feet after playing for 2 years.,it’s not that difficult.
I'm not sure what points you are trying to make, or what questions you are asking, but I'll attempt to answer anyway.
An LD shaft can have a small diameter (e.g., turned down solid maple) or a large diameter (e.g., hollow carbon fiber, or drilled out maple). Small endmass is what makes a shaft LD. A solid maple shaft can be LD only with a small diameter and/or a lighter (or no) ferrule. An LD shaft has a longer natural pivot length than a non-LD shaft. It is possible to aim accurately with sidespin using shafts of any diameter or any amount of CB deflection (within typical reasonable ranges).
Regards,
Dave
My results suggest otherwise, but given the comments in this thead I'm going to remeasure my shaft natural pivot point to make sure I didn't make a mistake. My last test showed it to be 12". It is a 12.75 mm maple shaft. The ferrule was made from phenolic. ie, made out of a cue ball.
Have you seen this video yet?
The natural pivot length of the Revo (19") is much longer than the solid maple shaft I tested (9.5").
Regards,
Dave
FYI, people who watch the video have often asked me:
"Why would you want a shaft with such a long pivot length? Doesn't that require a really long bridge length?
Again, there are advantages to using an LD shaft. Also, if one has good aiming intuition or uses an system like SAWS, one can aim accurately using sidespin with any cue and any bridge length.
Regards,
Dave
It does seem that using a cue with a pivot point the same as the bridge length would make a lot of sense. This would be kind of a starting point where you know the ball will go straight if hit firm, and then you can adjust from there as needed depending on the shot at hand.
I think what makes more sense is using a shaft that has an "effective pivot length" (for medium-distance shots struck at medium speed with a near-level cue) that matches your preferred bridge length ... unless you are talking about a break cue, in which case the natural pivot length should be well matched to your preferred breaking bridge length.
Regards,
Dave
When I recently started playing around again with pivot points I found that pivoting at my natural pp for firm down to what I would call medium speed medium distance shots all work, which is what you are saying works at the effective pp. I need to go back and maybe shim the pockets and pay more attention to how the balls are being pocketed.
If your definition of LD is 19" then I suppose you are right. From some links in the thread it looked like LD was considered anything over about 12 inches.
What is the longest pp you would expect to see from a standard maple shaft, my results notwithstanding?
12" is probably in the ballpark, but this depends a lot on shaft diameter and taper, and the type and size of ferrule. It also assumes the shaft is solid and not drilled out at all.
Regards,
Dave
Thanks. That's what I tried so un-eloquently to say. A smaller diameter shaft obviously has less end mass.
Last edited: