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Low500
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12-15-2017, 03:24 PM

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12-15-2017, 09:58 PM

This should be good.


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12-16-2017, 04:54 AM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
NO PESTS PLEASE....THIS IS FOR SPIDER, NOT YOU.
Mister Spider...let's talk about this shiskabon thing a little.
I threw 15 balls out on the table, ten times in a row. (my table is a torture chamber...if you don't split the pocket the ball hangs there. In fact when I have it recovered with Simonis, I'm going to have the man shim them even tighter to 4 inches from my current 4 1/4..but that is another story)
Yes. I made sure there were no clusters or balls frozen together, but I also made sure there were no 'cripples' hanging in holes. I did not start at any time with cue ball in hand...I just threw it out there too.
I pocketed 150 balls and missed once when I misjudged a 'center to edge' (30degree) hit and played it as a 15.
On all shots,I took my usual CTE perception for the angle in upright stance with the two lines as always. Then I got down into shooting position aiming dead straight at the object ball like video man does with center cue ball and then just slightly rotated my entire body into the shot line. Without tinkering with the back hand or the front hand. The 0, the 15 and the 30 were a lead pipe cinch.
The edge to edge gave me a little visual trouble in being SURE, but I whacked away and those went in also.
The only 'spin' used was high rolling ball and low rolling ball with that old 'drag stroke', by raising and lowering the bridge hand.....no side at all. Not even a trace. And draw and stun.
I've yet to experiment with adding right and left spin. Especially when I seldom need it or use it except when object ball is frozen on rail.
I'm not computing why what I am doing is not the exact same thing as CTE? In fact, it's easier to me...as far as falling into the shot line goes.
Please "rip me to shreds" and explain why this works so simple?
I do not consider myself a world beater...some of those old bums at the Moose Clubs and VFW still outrun me sometimes, even though I have to give them the nuts just about to even get them to bet that beer is wet.
Thanks.
Lowenstein
BECAUSE IT IS SIMPLE!! ALL of Hal Houle's systems had the exact same foundation. THE 3 LINES. CENTER, 1/2 WAY BETWEEN CENTER AND EDGE, AND EDGE.

Nothing any more complicated than those 3 lines. Once you become trained to see nothing but those 3 lines and completely eliminate CONTACT POINTS strung across the OB and CB to link together, GB that's off in space, FRACTIONS strung across the CB, or any other type of aiming system that takes imagination to the limits, pool shooting becomes a lot easier.

The toughest part of learning his systems is FORGETTING everything you've trained yours brain and eyes to do when down on the balls. Not that you can't use all of the above other aiming systems if you cared to, it's just that they won't integrate with any of the 3 lines.

Hal had over 20 3 Line Aiming Systems. He taught many of them to me, or tried to, but I either told him immediately I wasn't getting it easily and the system wasn't something I wanted to pursue or I forgot them over time.

The two systems that gave me immediate results which I've been doing for 11 years now are CTE and Shiskebob. They can be integrated easily with the 3 lines because that doesn't change.

What you are probably doing since you've trained yourself to see CENTER, 1/4 BALL, and EDGE is what Stan illustrated in his latest Shiskebob video that doesn't use the cue with a manual pivot like original Shiskebob or "Split the Difference" which has a manual STICK pivot to get there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uar8s9kbqdI

Stan said he'll be doing a stick pivot video for Shiskebob at a later date. But I think you're doing the visual alignments without pivot, that's all.

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12-16-2017, 05:25 AM

Training Session #3 (part 2 of 3)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb-NRjATtjI

Little Mike makes some very good points concerning PSR in this part.

I thought he was using BHE to apply spin. Not so. Watch his wrist, he is using Tuck and Roll to apply spin.

John


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I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

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12-16-2017, 06:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Pocket John View Post
Training Session #3 (part 2 of 3)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb-NRjATtjI

Gambling for big money with this guy would be a major mistake. Although you could make the money back by publishing and selling a book titled:
"How I Lost Everything I Owned In One Night And My Wife Left Me."


Little Mike makes some very good points concerning PSR in this part.

Yes. He proves the aiming process is a part of the PSR. NOT that the PSR negates any need for aiming.

I thought he was using BHE to apply spin. Not so. Watch his wrist, he is using Tuck and Roll to apply spin.

John
Tuck and Roll? Everybody knows that's a bunch of crap leading to inaccuracy. You apply English by putting your cue straight to the left or right on the CB to the OB.
It's called parallel!!

Don't be spreading this kind of stuff around to make somebody's game worse.

Where in the hell did you learn this garbage?
  
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12-16-2017, 06:25 AM

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12-16-2017, 06:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
Tuck and Roll? Everybody knows that's a bunch of crap leading to inaccuracy. You apply English by putting your cue straight to the left or right on the CB to the OB.
It's called parallel!!

Don't be spreading this kind of stuff around to make somebody's game worse.

Where in the hell did you learn this garbage?



John


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12-16-2017, 06:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
Tuck and Roll? Everybody knows that's a bunch of crap leading to inaccuracy. You apply English by putting your cue straight to the left or right on the CB to the OB.
It's called parallel!!

Don't be spreading this kind of stuff around to make somebody's game worse.

Where in the hell did you learn this garbage?
Really?? I stood DIRECTLY behind some of Filipinos at DCC in '07 just to check this. It was obvious that on certain spin shots they were pivoting/tucking/rolling/whatevering to apply english. After seeing this i made it a point to watch for this. On a lot of softer shots they'd use parallel and on firmer/harder shots it was BHE/T&R. Not everybody parallel shifts to spin their ball, not even close.
  
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12-16-2017, 06:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Thank you, kind sir.
Now I get the picture of why it's working so easily. (Shooters have no clue as to what a confidence builder this stuff is at the table when in combat for the cash)
I recall when I first starting fooling around with the CTE (which hasn't been that long) that getting it through my head to forget those contact points and fractions was the hardest part of the show. But like 'they' say.....21 days of concentrated effort and something can become a habit.
I see how Mister Houle's 3 line ideas carry over into his various methods of aiming. But when it's all said and done....we're still left with only 0-15-30-45 (and that crazy "paintbrush" 60) to pocket all shots. I like that and I believe it's the REAL POWER of the concept. How one arrives at those angles is another matter.....the simpler the better, in my opinion.
Of course the "pests and the haters" will argue forever about this, but they're dwindling in numbers and are being slowly exposed as nothing but no-shooting loudmouths. Poolrooms have been filled with those types for decades. Such is life around a poolroom.
Thanks again for your efforts and contributions.
P.L.
I don't know how you practice or what you do on your tight table at home. I don't do drills any more.

I just want to sharpen by eyes and brain to see the shots immediately with CTE or Shiskebob and decide where I want the CB to go and how to get there.

I use all 15 balls either spreading them out like you did for those 10 racks plus or breaking and then attacking the balls as they lay.

For a warm up I'll shoot in no particular order numerically. I'll just pick out patterns of 3-5 balls at a time to run the rack out.

After I'm warmed up I'll do the same as above either breaking or spreading the 15 balls out and work on running the table by rotation 1-15.

If I miss a ball and get p*ssed at my own stupidity, I'll sometimes reset the same shot and do it again just to see where it went haywire.

When you get some good 15 ball rotation runouts, a rack of 9 ball looks like a breeze.

But just running a full rack of 15 randomly can still be a challenge if you aren't preplanning your routes and patterns.


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12-16-2017, 06:48 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Really?? I stood DIRECTLY behind some of Filipinos at DCC in '07 just to check this. It was obvious that on certain spin shots they were pivoting/tucking/rolling/whatevering to apply english. After seeing this i made it a point to watch for this. On a lot of softer shots they'd use parallel and on firmer/harder shots it was BHE/T&R. Not everybody parallel shifts to spin their ball, not even close.
LMAO! I think John knows I was pulling his leg big time since I was the one that got him hooked on tuck and roll. But I'm glad you posted what you did and said what you said to solidify what the REAL PROS are doing. It's not what the pool forum scientists do or recommend. You know the ones. The total experts who write a big game and newbies look up to.

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12-16-2017, 07:32 AM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
[B][COLOR="Red"]

...........

I pocketed 150 balls and missed once when I misjudged a 'center to edge' (30degree) hit and played it as a 15. On all shots, I took my usual CTE perception for the angle in upright stance with the two lines as always. Then I got down into shooting position aiming dead straight at the object ball like video man does with center cue ball and then just slightly rotated my entire body into the shot line. Without tinkering with the back hand or the front hand. The 0, the 15 and the 30 were a lead pipe cinch.

The edge to edge gave me a little visual trouble in being SURE, but I whacked away and those went in also.
The only 'spin' used was high rolling ball and low rolling ball with that old 'drag stroke', by raising and lowering the bridge hand.....no side at all. Not even a trace. And draw and stun.

..........
This is interesting, yet very confusing for any reader trying to learn the "split the difference" or the "Shishkabob" aiming method.

Why do you use the two CTE visuals, which direct you to a fixed center CB, then disregard that fixed CCB and align to the CCB that connects to the center of the OB? Why not just immediately align to that line in the first place?

And when you "slighty rotated" your "entire body into the shot line", you still ended up with a CCB hit because you played every shot with no side spin whatsoever. So what was the target or aiming focus of your rotation? I mean, how did you know when you were on the shot line and therefore could stop rotating?

Little Mike starts with CCB to center OB, or 1/4, or 1/2 OB aim points. Then he pivots using BHE across the face of the CB to create the angle, no longer focusing on the OB. This is not Shishkabob as my friend does it, not even close, as he learned it from Tom Simpson anyway.

What Little Mike is doing is spinning balls in and using the basic quarters on the OB as initial angle references. He tweaks the angle by changing his aim through the CB end of the shot instead of the OB end, using english as an aide to help manipulate the shot angle. This method uses the entire pocket, but naturally certain shots will automatically already be lined dead center hole from that initial CCB to OB reference line, so no spinning would be required if you wanted the OB to track toward center hole. But you could still spin it and send it left or right of center if you absolutely must pivot everytime.

Mr. Lowenstein, you were doing your own thing when you shot those 10 racks. It's wasn't CTE, not splitting the difference with spin, not Shishkabob. I think a lot of readers would be interested in knowing exactly how you knew you were aiming directly along the shot line every time. Any player would love to be able to play that well using nothing but the vertical axis on the CB. It's very impressive.


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12-16-2017, 07:42 AM

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Originally Posted by One Pocket John View Post

I thought he was using BHE to apply spin. Not so. Watch his wrist, he is using Tuck and Roll to apply spin.

John
I have a "put on your thinking cap question for you". Lets assume the cut angle is a CCB to COB shot. With Mike's method for a cut you would pivot to 1/4 ball and then take the stroke.

Do you think it's possible to line up CCB to COB and start the stroke straight back from there but then either tuck or roll to end up having the cue align to 1/4 ball at the strike on the CB?
  
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12-16-2017, 07:49 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
This is not Shishkabob as my friend does it, not even close, as he learned it from Tom Simpson anyway.
Hal Houle invented Shiskabob, not Tom Simpson. But if Simpson is using the "term" he must have learned it from Hal.

I'm just wondering how he bastardized it and what he teaches with the system.

Do you know enough about what your friend does to be able to explain it accurately?

I'm curious and would like to know.
  
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12-16-2017, 07:55 AM

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Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
Hal Houle invented Shiskabob, not Tom Simpson. But if Simpson is using the "term" he must have learned it from Hal.

I'm just wondering how he bastardized it and what he teaches with the system.

Do you know enough about what your friend does to be able to explain it accurately?

I'm curious and would like to know.
I'm not all that sure of how he does it. He may have taken Tom's lesson and refined it with his own ideas. That's a common occurrence with these things. All I know that when I asked him how he aimed he said Tom Simpson taught him Shishkabob. I asked all the local players, the best of them, this aiming question while compiling my book. This guy is a great player, not a gambler due to religious beliefs, but a solid player.


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12-16-2017, 08:06 AM

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I'm not all that sure of how he does it. He may have taken Tom's lesson and refined it with his own ideas. That's a common occurrence with these things. All I know that when I asked him how he aimed he said Tom Simpson taught him Shishkabob. I asked all the local players, the best of them, this aiming question while compiling my book. This guy is a great player, not a gambler due to religious beliefs, but a solid player.
If he's one of your best friends, ask him! I mean WTF. Have him give you a complete verbal lesson over the phone. It's really not complicated and should take no more than 5 minutes on the phone. Especially now since you have a better understanding of the groundwork of how it's done based on everything posted here.

I'd really like to know.
  
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