Degree of Difficulty?

R

RWOJO

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was playing earlier and came across this shot. First I grabbed my jump cue. Then I noticed it was a full ball jump over the 8 ball and then I would be hitting the 6 ball on the wrong side. I told my friend I'll just masse the shot a little.

What would you say the difficulty of this shot is?
 

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West Point 1987

West Point 1987

On the Hill, Out of Gas
Silver Member
This is a difficult shot, especially with the distance and the distance from object ball to the pocket. I practice these every session, have for almost 30 years (it's one of my favorite tools, but proficiency comes and goes), and I would expect to make it 30% of the time, 90% to make contact. Shorter distances are easier. I personally prefer kick over masse, and masse over jump...but that's the way I've played my whole adult life. Jumping two interfering balls that far apart and hitting the object ball with accuracy is a recipe to leave the table. Most good players would look for a two rail kick over masse in this case (but I'm not "most" and really not that "good", so I'd "wrinkle it"!).:smile:
 
Tony_in_MD

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
In terms of a masse, not as difficult because the distance involved allows you to curve the cue ball the needed amount without having to put excessive spin on the cue ball. (more distance, more chance for the spin to turn the cueball on the line desired)

I believe the shorter masse's that require you to bend the CB a foot or more in a smaller distance (like 6 to 8 inches) are more difficult. Those are the masses's that require you to hit almost straight down on the edge of the cue ball.

Cudos to you for making the shot that was an added bonus.
 
R

RWOJO

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Difficult...

I would say I'm 95% chance to make a good hit on that long jump shot (the other 5% would be because the 9 ball was so close to the line of the hit), but to add a little masse so that it hooked at the end to cut the ball, I was pumped up. So pumped up that even though I had really good position on the 7 ball, I took a minute before I continued to run out.

I've seen Corey Deuel make a similiar shot before. But this was the first time I made something like this.

The more amazing thing is what it did after... The last few weeks I haven't been shooting too great. I've been spending more time teaching then playing and I haven't been really practicing. So after making this shot my confidence went through the roof. The rest of the night it was like I stepped my game up a notch.
 
West Point 1987

West Point 1987

On the Hill, Out of Gas
Silver Member
Tony_in_MD said:
In terms of a masse, not as difficult because the distance involved allows you to curve the cue ball the needed amount without having to put excessive spin on the cue ball. (more distance, more chance for the spin to turn the cueball on the line desired)

I believe the shorter masse's that require you to bend the CB a foot or more in a smaller distance (like 6 to 8 inches) are more difficult. Those are the masses's that require you to hit almost straight down on the edge of the cue ball.

Cudos to you for making the shot that was an added bonus.
Click to expand...

Agree with (very) short masses being more difficult...but when I said the distance made this particular shot tougher I meant that for me, a half or full ball masse/wrinkle is optimal in 2 1/2 to 3 diamonds distance. His example is a full ball wrinkle nearly full table length to pocket a 30 degree cut shot. That's TOUGH to aim/steer reliably, and there's an added scratch danger masse'ing around the left side of this shot.

All that said, I spend so much time practicing masses because it's gotten me out of trouble so many times it's worth the effort...kind of like going rail first to get around an interferring ball and clipping the OB up the rail or using severe running english on draw shots to get back up table when you're left with a straight in shot. I know most B level players and above know these shots, but most don't practice them. Once I started practicing them a little, I ended up with tools that opened up possibilities a lot of players never consider.
 
R

RWOJO

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Difficulty...

I know the difficulty on the shot if it was just a masse. I'm fairly good at regular masse shots. But for this shot I jumped the 8 ball with right english. I hit just enough height and speed that the cue ball cleared the 8 and right about when it started to masse it had stopped skipping (finally rolling instead of bouncing) and the speed was just right that it had time for the masse to take.

I know that the 6 ball being so far from the pocket really increases the difficulty, but what my focus was on is the Jump + Masse in the same shot.
 
West Point 1987

West Point 1987

On the Hill, Out of Gas
Silver Member
RWOJO said:
I know the difficulty on the shot if it was just a masse. I'm fairly good at regular masse shots. But for this shot I jumped the 8 ball with right english. I hit just enough height and speed that the cue ball cleared the 8 and right about when it started to masse it had stopped skipping (finally rolling instead of bouncing) and the speed was just right that it had time for the masse to take.

I know that the 6 ball being so far from the pocket really increases the difficulty, but what my focus was on is the Jump + Masse in the same shot.
Click to expand...

Okay, I see...well that IS pretty slick! I think most jump shots have a little masse in them (all mine do, whether I want it or not:(), but anticipating/controlling that has got to be tough...must have been very pretty! I remember seeing a video of Bustamante putting english on a jump shot, but I couldn't see any effect on the shot (at least in the video); I'm sure he meant to do it, so there's obviously something to this! Dammit! Now I got to talk my wife into letting me hit the pool room tonight...
 
R

RWOJO

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jumping

Jumping straight is all about alignment. Most people (right handed) come off the line of the shot when they raise up for a jump shot. They start on the line and pull the cue up and left. If you have a friend double check your alignment after you are raised up this should confirm. The compounded effect here is not following straight through the ball and this is where you get the masse.

What I do is line up the shot like I am just shooting straight, then I find 3 or more reference points on the table (balls, divets, diamonds...) that are in line with the shot. After I adjust my body and elevate my cue, I make sure my dominate eyes right over the cue and then double check off my reference points to make sure I'm still in line with the shot. The last step is to stay down on the shot and follow straight toward your target. If you work on this you will be able to shoot your jump shots straighter and make more shots.
 
R

RWOJO

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jump Masse

Since I made the original post I told a friend who loves jump shots. Her response was "Friday you'll have to show me". So my response was a joking "it may take a few tries"

I met up and tried this shot again. The first attempt I jumped too far and the ball never came back to a natural roll, it just bounced right into the 6 ball. The second attempt I nailed it again, dead center of the pocket and the position wasn't as good on the 7 as the other day but I MADE IT AGAIN. Everyone was just as tickled as me for a great shot exectuted.

So a couple days later someone else wanted to see it. I tried and missed, tried and missed, tried and missed and on my 4th try I made it again. With practice the masse added to the jump shot is getting easier. The hard part is the combination of jumping high and far enough to clear the object ball and then to get the cue ball back to a natural roll with it still having the sidespin for the masse. I'll try to get this on video and get it posted.
 
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