Ok. So I was practicing long power draw shots. About 5ft from cueball to object ball. Anyways I was really struggling. Tried 3 different cues and still struggled. So I tried my sons cue which is about 1-2 oz heavier in the butt. Well one cue I have is a Joss and his is also a Joss. Just has a heavier weight bolt. Well after shooting with the butt heavy Joss I noticed my aim and draw was straighter. These were straight in shots to begin with. What a difference. Still struggling with why and now thinking I may need to try and add weight to my other cues. Would it be the weight or change in balance point. I already know I need to work on my stroke. Alot.
Butt heavy
- Thread starter jburkm002
- Start date
I suspect it's the weight that is carrying more influence.
An object in motion tends to stay in motion.
If it's heavier, then it will take more effort to change it's trajectory.
If you're aligned properly but your deliver is not pure, the heavier stick will tend to stay on track longer due to the added weight.
If you have a pure delivery, then the weight is not a major factor in accuracy.
I suspect you're experiencing more accuracy because of the added weight but the real issue may be that your delivery is not pure and straight.
An object in motion tends to stay in motion.
If it's heavier, then it will take more effort to change it's trajectory.
If you're aligned properly but your deliver is not pure, the heavier stick will tend to stay on track longer due to the added weight.
If you have a pure delivery, then the weight is not a major factor in accuracy.
I suspect you're experiencing more accuracy because of the added weight but the real issue may be that your delivery is not pure and straight.
You haven't addressed weight distribution. What's your opinion on that?
Given the nature of cue design, the butt area will always be heavier than the shaft so variations in weight distribution can often be measured in fractions of an inch from a standard point of reference.
As such, people often describe a cue as butt heavy if they sense the cue has more weight toward the butt end of the cue but in actuality the center of balance may be no more than 1/4 to 1/2 inch from the weighted center of a standard cue.
Based on this small margin, and the nature of the OP's question, I suspect that weight distribution would have a nominal effect unless you had a custom cue with a highly unusual distribution of weight.
The more weight in the grip area or behind...the more energy is required to pull the cue off it's true line of approach.
A heavier butt will strive to stay on the projected line. In turn a heavier cue will respond in similar fashion.
Less weight in the cue will be more easily influenced by errors in the stroke delivery since a lighter cue will give way more easily.
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I've played with cues of identical weight with different weight distributions and the difference between the cues felt significant to me. I don't know where exactly the weight was distributed in each cue, other than one was definitely forward and the other was back-weighted, but there was no question that they played totally different regarding shot-making and finessing shots. I think weight distribution is actually very important.
That's why I asked the weight of the cues. I'm wondering if there's much of a difference in weight, or is it mainly the distribution of weight.
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I agree that weight distribution can apply to finesse, especially among high performing players who possess the ability to control the cue ball to such an extent that they can actually measure the variation.
On the other hand, the OP was curious why his stroke delivery seemed more accurate with his son's heavier cue. In my opinion, the weight is likely the dominating factor in that observation.
Finesse deals with minutia. That's why I consider it a nominal influence. I could be wrong. Just an opinion.
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Well before passing judgement, I think we should know what the weight differential is that he's referring to.
I believe the OP suggested it was 1-2 ounces.
That means he/she doesn't know. Back-weighted cues do feel heavier, so it could be just that or there really is a difference in weight. The cues should be weighed.
There are a lot of different factors that could come into play between two different cues:
Do they have the same tips?
Is one shaft diameter different than the other?
Is the balance point on the cues the same distance from the butt or joint?
Is one cue heavier than the other?
Are the tapers different?
Are the joint materials different?
Two cues of the same length can have an identical overall weight, yet be totally different in construction, materials, and balance.
Two cues that are completely different in weight can have the same balance point (in matter of inches from the butt or joint).
Personally, I think I can draw the ball better with a heavier cue that is a bit more butt heavy. I played the majority of my life with a 14mm, 21 oz cue and I have drawn the cue ball two table lengths or more on a 9 foot table. That is 18 feet, or more. I don't think one should have to draw a cue ball much further than that too often.
Earlier today, before I read this, I was measuring the balance points on several of the cues I break out to play with. I think the balance of a cue matters more than the weight when it comes to doing some things. Differences in balance points can cause you to chase stroke lengths, bridge lengths, and stances which will affect how the cue ball reacts.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=437482
Do they have the same tips?
Is one shaft diameter different than the other?
Is the balance point on the cues the same distance from the butt or joint?
Is one cue heavier than the other?
Are the tapers different?
Are the joint materials different?
Two cues of the same length can have an identical overall weight, yet be totally different in construction, materials, and balance.
Two cues that are completely different in weight can have the same balance point (in matter of inches from the butt or joint).
Personally, I think I can draw the ball better with a heavier cue that is a bit more butt heavy. I played the majority of my life with a 14mm, 21 oz cue and I have drawn the cue ball two table lengths or more on a 9 foot table. That is 18 feet, or more. I don't think one should have to draw a cue ball much further than that too often.
Earlier today, before I read this, I was measuring the balance points on several of the cues I break out to play with. I think the balance of a cue matters more than the weight when it comes to doing some things. Differences in balance points can cause you to chase stroke lengths, bridge lengths, and stances which will affect how the cue ball reacts.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=437482
move your bridge hand just a little closer to the cue ball. Move your back hand just a little towards the butt.
hold the cue loose and snap your wrist thru the shot. In other words "throw" the cue thru the cue ball.
chalk up well and hit the cue ball low with as level a stroke as possible.
its not the cue so much as the stroke.
you are welcome.
hold the cue loose and snap your wrist thru the shot. In other words "throw" the cue thru the cue ball.
chalk up well and hit the cue ball low with as level a stroke as possible.
its not the cue so much as the stroke.
you are welcome.
Back-heavy cues tend to suit people who play with a looser wrist as it's harder for added wrist movement to significantly upset the cue delivery mid-stroke. A heavier over-all cue weight will also suit a wristy grip since the cue has more momentum so despite the loose wrist, the tip still gets driven firmly into the CB rather than rattling or slipping. This can explain why some people find it easier to draw with a heavier cue.
If you keep your wrist a little firmer (without closing your grip around the cue or gripping with more pressure than absolutely necessary) your arm will continue drive the cue through the ball during the stroke as opposed to 'releasing' the cue through the ball, so the firmer wrist gets better CB action with lighter more front-balanced cues.
The upshot of a firmer wrist is that you can pick up any cue and play near the miscue limit with good action. The downsides are 1) it can be hard to hit slow-speed spin shots using a heavy cue and firm wrist and 2) if you accidentally loosen up your wrist with a light cue on a draw shot you can scoop the CB into the air ... Those incidents are embarrassing.
A looser wrist will usually make the cue's weight and distribution of mass much more of a factor in making the CB behave and be less finicky with stroke variations since the cue is doing more of the work, while a firmer wrist will tend to eliminate the occasional poor tip contact but will make balancing speed/spin highly dependent on your grip pressure, cue weight, and arm speed. So my guess is that if you are getting significantly more draw out of a back-heavy or overall heavier cue, you're playing with a looser wrist
If you keep your wrist a little firmer (without closing your grip around the cue or gripping with more pressure than absolutely necessary) your arm will continue drive the cue through the ball during the stroke as opposed to 'releasing' the cue through the ball, so the firmer wrist gets better CB action with lighter more front-balanced cues.
The upshot of a firmer wrist is that you can pick up any cue and play near the miscue limit with good action. The downsides are 1) it can be hard to hit slow-speed spin shots using a heavy cue and firm wrist and 2) if you accidentally loosen up your wrist with a light cue on a draw shot you can scoop the CB into the air ... Those incidents are embarrassing.
A looser wrist will usually make the cue's weight and distribution of mass much more of a factor in making the CB behave and be less finicky with stroke variations since the cue is doing more of the work, while a firmer wrist will tend to eliminate the occasional poor tip contact but will make balancing speed/spin highly dependent on your grip pressure, cue weight, and arm speed. So my guess is that if you are getting significantly more draw out of a back-heavy or overall heavier cue, you're playing with a looser wrist