Edge of the cue ball (CB) aiming.

L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Edge of the CB aiming.

If you line up center of the CB to the center of the OB you can shoot the straight in shot.

If you line up with the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB (CTE) you can shoot a 30 degree cut angle to the left.

If your eyes are 2.25” apart and can stroke the cue in between under you chin and between your eyes, you can then use the edges (3:00 and 9:00) of the CB to aim with.

You can aim the left edge of the CB at the left edge of the OB with your cue to the right side of that aim line, with the tip of the cue aimed at the center of the CB, and shoot a straight in shot. The cue will be parallel to the left edge aim line.

If you can aim the left edge of the CB at the center of the OB, you can shoot a 30 degree cut angle to the left for the cue will be aimed at the right edge of the OB (CTE).

If you aim the left edge of the CB at the right edge of the OB you can shoot a 90 degree cut angle to the left.

This means that by aiming the left edge of the CB at points on the equator of the OB from the left edge to the right edge, you can effect all of the cut angle required to send the OB to the left – the reverse is also true for cutting the OB to the right.

Using this method of aiming, you can then aim the left edge of the CB at the fractions on the OB, like ¼ and ¾ (we already covered the left edge, center and right edge).

Having memorized the resulting cut angles for ¼ and ¾ and the shot looks like it is a bit to the right or left, then try 1/8, 3/8, 5/8 or 7/8 or what ever you have stored in your memory of the resulting cut angles produced for you by all of those fractions – including 1/3 and 2/3.

Oh yeah, unlike GB aiming, all of the aim points/fractions are visible on the OB and not off to the outside of the edge of the OB on the cloth somewhere.

Try it. It might work for you.

Be well.
Edge sight 1-001.jpg



Edge Ct Angle 1.jpg
 
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A

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
... Having memorized the resulting cut angles for ¼ and ¾ and the shot looks like it is a bit to the right or left, then try 1/8, 3/8, 5/8 or 7/8 or what ever you have stored in your memory of the resulting cut angles produced for you by all of those fractions – including 1/3 and 2/3. ...
Click to expand...

From a table posted by Bob Jewett years ago, here are the cut angles for the fractions you mentioned (assuming no throw):

7/8 = 7.2 degrees
3/4 = 14.5
2/3 = 19.5
5/8 = 22.0
1/2 = 30.0
3/8 = 38.7
1/3 = 41.8
1/4 = 48.6
1/8 = 61.0
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
AtLarge,
Thanks, but the inverse fits the diagrams that I proffer.

1/8 = 7.2 degrees
1/4 = 14.5
1/3 = 19.5
3/8 = 22.0
1/2 = 30.0
5/8 = 38.7
2/3 = 41.8
3/4 = 48.6
7/8 = 61.01
15/16=71.0
8/8 = 90.0

:smile:
 
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A

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
AtLarge,
Thanks, but the inverse fits the diagrams that I proffer.

...
Click to expand...

Aha, you are correct; I should have examined your last diagram more closely! Usually people use the fractions to indicate the amount of ball overlap.

But now I see that your diagram indicates 75D for the 7/8 fraction. Actually, a 75-degree cut follows from about a 1/32 ball overlap (31/32 in your terms) rather than a 1/8 overlap (7/8 in your terms). Maybe you just need to change the diagram to show 61 degrees rather than 75 for 7/8 (or maybe I'm missing something else:smile:).
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
AtLarge said:
Aha, you are correct; I should have examined your last diagram more closely! Usually people use the fractions to indicate the amount of ball overlap.

But now I see that your diagram indicates 75D for the 7/8 fraction. Actually, a 75-degree cut follows from about a 1/32 ball overlap (31/32 in your terms) rather than a 1/8 overlap (7/8 in your terms). Maybe you just need to change the diagram to show 61 degrees rather than 75 for 7/8 (or maybe I'm missing something else:smile:).
Click to expand...

The fractions and resulting cut angles from Bob Jewett that you posted would apply for cut angles to the the right with the fractions always going/ascending from left to right.

I was going to confirm the cut angles to fractions using AutoCAD (within 1 degree) at work tomorrow, I took a guess since Power Point (what I have at home) is more visual and not geometrically correct....like CTE.:smile:

I will update the 7/8 fraction angle based on AutoCAD. There is no rush for all I hear are crickets in this thread - save you.

Thanks.
 
A

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
... I will update the 7/8 fraction angle based on AutoCAD. There is no rush for all I hear are crickets in this thread - save you. ...
Click to expand...

Yup, just us'uns here so far. No need to do the AutoCAD for the 7/8 fraction (1/8 overlap). I checked it with trig, and Mr. Jewett is correct (no surprise there!) -- 61 degrees.

Edit: and I also checked the other angles and all are correct.
 
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L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While standing and contemplating your shot, You can use your cue at arms length to line up the edge to the aim point on the OB. When you get down on the shot, you will be in the zone to make the shot.:smile:
 
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M

Mikjary

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LAMas said:
Edge of the CB aiming.

If you line up center of the CB to the center of the OB you can shoot the straight in shot.

If you line up with the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB (CTE) you can shoot a 30 degree cut angle to the left.

If your eyes are 2.25” apart and can stroke the cue in between under you chin and between your eyes, you can then use the edges (3:00 and 9:00) of the CB to aim with.

You can aim the left edge of the CB at the left edge of the OB with your cue to the right side of that aim line, with the tip of the cue aimed at the center of the CB, and shoot a straight in shot. The cue will be parallel to the left edge aim line.

If you can aim the left edge of the CB at the center of the OB, you can shoot a 30 degree cut angle to the left for the cue will be aimed at the right edge of the OB (CTE).

If you aim the left edge of the CB at the right edge of the OB you can shoot a 90 degree cut angle to the left.

This means that by aiming the left edge of the CB at points on the equator of the OB from the left edge to the right edge, you can effect all of the cut angle required to send the OB to the left – the reverse is also true for cutting the OB to the right.

Using this method of aiming, you can then aim the left edge of the CB at the fractions on the OB, like ¼ and ¾ (we already covered the left edge, center and right edge).

Having memorized the resulting cut angles for ¼ and ¾ and the shot looks like it is a bit to the right or left, then try 1/8, 3/8, 5/8 or 7/8 or what ever you have stored in your memory of the resulting cut angles produced for you by all of those fractions – including 1/3 and 2/3.

Oh yeah, unlike GB aiming, all of the aim points/fractions are visible on the OB and not off to the outside of the edge of the OB on the cloth somewhere.

Try it. It might work for you.

Be well.
View attachment 236419



View attachment 236764
Click to expand...

LAMas,

Nice post and great diagrams! I would like to add one caveat and it may be not applicable to all players. We talk a bunch about dominant eye position, vision center, and alignment. Not all players stand in the same manner that allows the 2 1/4" eye spacing to be a factor.

Many players have their head turned slightly with one eye in front of the other. This head position narrows the eye spacing distance relative to the amount of the rotation.

On a straight in shot, I line up my dominant eye with a center to center alignment. My other eye is lined up on the edge of the cue ball and the edge of the object ball. Different strokes and all that! :smile: Just sayin'.

Best,
Mike
 
Okie

Okie

Seeker
Silver Member
Does anyone have any tricks to using a system like this at long distances?

Longer shots are were I have a difficult time establishing a visual.

I understand it isn't easy. :) :eek:

Ken
 
peteypooldude

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
FTR Your headline got my my attention but diagrams aren't my thing . Besides YOU already know my visuls and set up :eek:
However I have went to the "air" pivot since our last phone conversation , I seem to get the exact same results. The only difference is that I don't "physically" plant my hand "pre-pivot anymore and Now I actually look at the contact point post pivot. Good luck and good job Lamas
 
D

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
LAMas said:
Edge of the CB aiming.

If you line up center of the CB to the center of the OB you can shoot the straight in shot.

If you line up with the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB (CTE) you can shoot a 30 degree cut angle to the left.

If your eyes are 2.25” apart and can stroke the cue in between under you chin and between your eyes, you can then use the edges (3:00 and 9:00) of the CB to aim with.

You can aim the left edge of the CB at the left edge of the OB with your cue to the right side of that aim line, with the tip of the cue aimed at the center of the CB, and shoot a straight in shot. The cue will be parallel to the left edge aim line.

If you can aim the left edge of the CB at the center of the OB, you can shoot a 30 degree cut angle to the left for the cue will be aimed at the right edge of the OB (CTE).

If you aim the left edge of the CB at the right edge of the OB you can shoot a 90 degree cut angle to the left.

This means that by aiming the left edge of the CB at points on the equator of the OB from the left edge to the right edge, you can effect all of the cut angle required to send the OB to the left – the reverse is also true for cutting the OB to the right.

Using this method of aiming, you can then aim the left edge of the CB at the fractions on the OB, like ¼ and ¾ (we already covered the left edge, center and right edge).

Having memorized the resulting cut angles for ¼ and ¾ and the shot looks like it is a bit to the right or left, then try 1/8, 3/8, 5/8 or 7/8 or what ever you have stored in your memory of the resulting cut angles produced for you by all of those fractions – including 1/3 and 2/3.

Oh yeah, unlike GB aiming, all of the aim points/fractions are visible on the OB and not off to the outside of the edge of the OB on the cloth somewhere.

Try it. It might work for you.

Be well.
View attachment 236419



View attachment 236764
Click to expand...


I'm holding the 8 ball. I do not see anything but black. I do not see any aim points on it nor fraction lines.

Do you have a special set of balls or something?

YOU still have to imagine spots on the ball which is no different than imagining a spot on the table. This all goes on in your head.

You not being able to do this is a different story. I can pick spots on the table all day long which is no different than someone that picks a spot on a OB all day long.

I just get tired of hearing this "all the points are on the ball" when there are no points on the ball, it's all in your head.

Some people are terrible at guessing what a 1/8 fraction of anything would look like. Plus as mentioned, distance comes into play. That 1/8 fraction is gonna look smaller as the OB distance from the player increases.

The only thing that is not affect by distance is the spot on the table. Take this shot as example. I can see and hit the spot on the table better than if trying to see a spot in the OB.
 
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ENGLISH!

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
The problem I have with these types of systems, for me, is that I do not carry a protractor around to measure the cut angles. What exact angle is that cut or that cut? I do not know what aiming system I now use other than I have hit 'a million' balls. I started with Ghost Ball & evolved to the fraction / fraction overlap, & now I just look & shoot. I make a 'visual' connection between the CB & OB & shoot.

I would 'love' to have a system really that works. But... for a system to 'really work' it has to be effective for 'every' shot & I have not found one that 'I' can execute to that end. I have briefly experimented with CTE but found 'holes'. I surmise that I do not have a complete comprehension of CTE & have been unable to find a comprehensive explanation as I have not spent the time to find one, as I am now suspect.

Any enlightenment will be apprciated.
Rick
 
claymont

claymont

JADE
Gold Member
Silver Member
If you haven't been to this site, it might help.
offset and pivot aiming systems

ENGLISH! said:
The problem I have with these types of systems, for me, is that I do not carry a protractor around to measure the cut angles. What exact angle is that cut or that cut? I do not know what aiming system I now use other than I have hit 'a million' balls. I started with Ghost Ball & evolved to the fraction / fraction overlap, & now I just look & shoot. I make a 'visual' connection between the CB & OB & shoot.

I would 'love' to have a system really that works. But... for a system to 'really work' it has to be effective for 'every' shot & I have not found one that 'I' can execute to that end. I have briefly experimented with CTE but found 'holes'. I surmise that I do not have a complete comprehension of CTE & have been unable to find a comprehensive explanation as I have not spent the time to find one, as I am now suspect.

Any enlightenment will be apprciated.
Rick
Click to expand...
 
L

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
peteypooldude said:
FTR Your headline got my my attention but diagrams aren't my thing . Besides YOU already know my visuls and set up :eek:
However I have went to the "air" pivot since our last phone conversation , I seem to get the exact same results. The only difference is that I don't "physically" plant my hand "pre-pivot anymore and Now I actually look at the contact point post pivot. Good luck and good job Lamas
Click to expand...

Thanks Pete.
It was you and MikeJ that opened up that it was possible to visualize the edge of the CB to "spots" on the OB. Although, the conversation was on the secondary aim line using the edge of the CB in conjunction with CTE and pivoting, I realized that all of the cut angles can be seen/visualized on the OB using the edge of the CB - no pivot required - for me.

I use this for cut angles greater than a 1/2 ball hit where I must imagine a spot/line off of the edge of the OB to aim at.

I suffer from parallax so I use "stick aiming" from the edge of the CB before I get down - this may accomodate different vision centers for diffeerent shooters.

From the center to center (straight), CTE/ETC and ETE (thin) cuts, one must spend time at the table and memorize the results of aiming the edge of the CB at the diffeerent spots/lines inbetween.

Thanks Pete and Mike.
 
ENGLISH!

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Living Legend said:
what holes did you find with cte and which cte system were you using?
Click to expand...


See there. I did not even know there was more than one CTE system. I just thought more info was let out to the same system.

Certain shots that I can easily make but using CTE I missed. But... I said I attributed that to my not fully understanding some aspect of CTE. I'm not saying CTE does not work. I'm just saying I am not convinced yet in the application, for me, & as I said I surmise that I do not understand something in it or am lacking something. When it does work, for me, it is dead on. So I am intrigued.

I'm on the slow road but have not given up on it.
Rick
 
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L

Living Legend

Banned
ENGLISH! said:
See there. I did not even know there was more than one CTE system. I just thought more info was let out to the same system.

Certain shots that I can easily make but using CTE I missed. But... I said I attributed that to my not fully understanding some aspect of CTE. I'm not saying CTE does not work. I'm just saying I am not convinced yet in the application, for me, & as I said I surmise that I do not understand something in it or am lacking something. When it does work, for me, it is dead on. So I am intrigued.

I'm on the slow road but have not given up on it.
Rick
Click to expand...

I use stan shuffett cte/pro1 99.9% of the time. I can tell you anyone can set up a "billion" different shots and they are all make able using cte/pro1. I can tell you there are people that can run a rack using a cte systems and they do not know what makes cte systems actually work, I see it all the time on here. There will be a cte thread starting up soon and it will become the best cte thread ever on az. :wink:
 
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