Need some advice on a Global Concorde.

cnyncrvr · Jan 29, 2016

As the title states I need a little advice from some of you FAR MORE seasoned pro's.

Later this week I have to re level, re cushion, re felt a 7 foot Global Concorde bar box table at a local bar that I frequent.

My question has to do with the re cushioning aspect. Because the table is in a bar that is open 7 days a week from 12 pm to 2am and the table gets played on daily I cant take the table out of service in order to send the rails to ridgeback and have them remade. I thought about purchasing a set of factory global rails since they are close enough that I could drive down and pick them up or even have them shipped to me and still have them in time to do the table but the problem with that is it is not cost effective to the owner of the establishment as they are working on a bit of a budget and the cost of new rails would put them over that budget.

So the only option I am left with is the re cushion the factory blocks and that is where the issue comes up, Global says not to remove the blocks or corner castings at all. That seems strange to me as with out doing so I would think it nearly impossible to properly replace the cushions because you are limited in your ability to move and manipulate the rails. I would also think it very difficult to properly stretch new cloth over the rails for the same reason.

So I am hoping that some of you more seasoned pros with experience working on this type of table would be able to give me some advice and tips.

For reference this is the type of table I am referring to. The rails are not like a valley or dynamo. Instead of bolting to the cabinet from the side these bolt to the table from the bottom via a support frame around the edge of the cabinet with the slate sitting inside the cabinet. The entire top outer perimeter of the table comes off as a single piece with all 6 rails, corner castings, and pocket openings attached. To disassemble you would pull the pockets out and then unbolt the entire top with the rails attached from the support frame from underneath the table.

These two images give a pretty decent visual of what I am talking about.

Poolhalljunkie · Jan 30, 2016

Rails

Does ridge back need the original blocks? I ordered a set of ridgeback a for a dynamo 8' and he sent them to me with his blocks. Already covered and ready to install.

realkingcobra · Jan 30, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
As the title states I need a little advice from some of you FAR MORE seasoned pro's.

Later this week I have to re level, re cushion, re felt a 7 foot Global Concorde bar box table at a local bar that I frequent.

My question has to do with the re cushioning aspect. Because the table is in a bar that is open 7 days a week from 12 pm to 2am and the table gets played on daily I cant take the table out of service in order to send the rails to ridgeback and have them remade. I thought about purchasing a set of factory global rails since they are close enough that I could drive down and pick them up or even have them shipped to me and still have them in time to do the table but the problem with that is it is not cost effective to the owner of the establishment as they are working on a bit of a budget and the cost of new rails would put them over that budget.

So the only option I am left with is the re cushion the factory blocks and that is where the issue comes up, Global says not to remove the blocks or corner castings at all. That seems strange to me as with out doing so I would think it nearly impossible to properly replace the cushions because you are limited in your ability to move and manipulate the rails. I would also think it very difficult to properly stretch new cloth over the rails for the same reason.

So I am hoping that some of you more seasoned pros with experience working on this type of table would be able to give me some advice and tips.

For reference this is the type of table I am referring to. The rails are not like a valley or dynamo. Instead of bolting to the cabinet from the side these bolt to the table from the bottom via a support frame around the edge of the cabinet with the slate sitting inside the cabinet. The entire top outer perimeter of the table comes off as a single piece with all 6 rails, corner castings, and pocket openings attached. To disassemble you would pull the pockets out and then unbolt the entire top with the rails attached from the support frame from underneath the table.

These two images give a pretty decent visual of what I am talking about.

Here's a hint...those rails don't have removable rail blocks because they're solid rails and require feather strips.

cnyncrvr · Jan 30, 2016

realkingcobra said:
Here's a hint...those rails don't have removable rail blocks because they're solid rails and require feather strips.

Yeah I knew they were feather strip rails. I just was not sure if there was a way to remove or replace the rail blocks with out getting a new entire top section. Thank RKC

realkingcobra · Jan 30, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
Yeah I knew they were feather strip rails. I just was not sure if there was a way to remove or replace the rail blocks with out getting a new entire top section. Thank RKC

There is, but it requires cutting the sub rails off and building new again...why not just replace the tables?

cnyncrvr · Jan 30, 2016

realkingcobra said:
There is, but it requires cutting the sub rails off and building new again...why not just replace the tables?

Those pictures were from a different bar that I used to go to with my ex.

This bar only has the one Global Concorde, As far as replacing the tables they cant afford to get a new table, and if they got a used table they would have to get it for about fifty dollar's to stay with in the recovering budget they have set aside. Its a small bar so money is a concern for the owner. She is a sweet heart who takes care of her patrons which is why I am trying to do what I can to help out.

realkingcobra · Jan 30, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
Those pictures were from a different bar that I used to go to with my ex.

This bar only has the one Global Concorde, As far as replacing the tables they cant afford to get a new table, and if they got a used table they would have to get it for about fifty dollar's to stay with in the recovering budget they have set aside. Its a small bar so money is a concern for the owner. She is a sweet heart who takes care of her patrons which is why I am trying to do what I can to help out.

Then don't do any more than just changing the cloth, I wouldn't waste my time worrying about cushions, it's clear she has no concerns either!

cnyncrvr · Jan 30, 2016

realkingcobra said:
Then don't do any more than just changing the cloth, I wouldn't waste my time worrying about cushions, it's clear she has no concerns either!

Not sure what you mean by saying she has no concerns either. Her concern is making the table play as well as possible but it has to be with in a budget. Right now the cushions barely bounce 3 rails with a pretty hard roll so its something that I cant overlook.

realkingcobra · Jan 30, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
Not sure what you mean by saying she has no concerns either. Her concern is making the table play as well as possible but it has to be with in a budget. Right now the cushions barely bounce 3 rails with a pretty hard roll so its something that I cant overlook.

My point is that if changing the cushion's is out of budget, then don't change them, unless she realizes they won't fix the problem on their own, so that has to be accounted for....if she won't pay, she don't care....simple!

cnyncrvr · Jan 30, 2016

realkingcobra said:
My point is that if changing the cushion's is out of budget, then don't change them, unless she realizes they won't fix the problem on their own, so that has to be accounted for....if she won't pay, she don't care....simple!

Okay so thats where the misunderstanding was coming from.

Its not that she cant afford new cushions, its that she cant afford a complete new upper deck with new rail blocks.

My question was about figuring out if I could in fact separate the cushion blocks from the 1 piece rail cap and blind to make replacing the cushions, facings, and cloth a more easily managed job.

Sorry for the confusion and misunderstanding.

realkingcobra · Jan 30, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
Okay so thats where the misunderstanding was coming from.

Its not that she cant afford new cushions, its that she cant afford a complete new upper deck with new rail blocks.

My question was about figuring out if I could in fact separate the cushion blocks from the 1 piece rail cap and blind to make replacing the cushions, facings, and cloth a more easily managed job.

Sorry for the confusion and misunderstanding.

The rails disassemble into 4 rails, the work needed to be performed to rebuild the rails is no different than rebuilding the rails on a Diamond or Gold Crown...which in my case, starts at $1,500. The fact that you're asking questions about that process makes it over your head skill level wise, just saying.

cnyncrvr · Jan 30, 2016

realkingcobra said:
The rails disassemble into 4 rails, the work needed to be performed to rebuild the rails is no different than rebuilding the rails on a Diamond or Gold Crown...which in my case, starts at $1,500. The fact that you're asking questions about that process makes it over your head skill level wise, just saying.

Okay so let me set this straight. The rails do not need to be rebuilt. They need to have new cushion rubber installed and then recovered. Not sure how much more clear I can be about that.

As far as something being over my head skill level wise because I asked a question......Again let me be perfectly clear, My asking a question is simply because I have not worked on this particular manufacturers table before so I was simply attempting to get a better understanding. IE could the rail cap be taken apart to make the job more manageable or was the rail cap actually a single solid piece.

Now since I am a straight shooter, speak my mind, and call it as I see it:

Your replies here have come across extremely conceited and condescending. While you very well may be the best table mechanic to have graced this industry in the last thirty years, That does not give you to right to belittle someone who is trying to gain knowledge. I am an adult, I have been respectful to you and as such I expect the same in return. Unless you have more ribbons on your chest and more chevrons on your shoulder than I do, You have not earned the right to dress me down, belittle me, or be disrespectful! If you cant be a positive contributor then do not bother replying to any of the threads I post from this point forward!

Problem solved, Problem staying solved.

realkingcobra · Jan 30, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
Its not that she cant afford new cushions, its that she cant afford a complete new upper deck with new rail blocks.

My question was about figuring out if I could in fact separate the cushion blocks from the 1 piece rail cap and blind to make replacing the cushions, facings, and cloth a more easily managed job..

Look, you're asking one thing, like the quote above, with your BS attack on my for telling you you have no idea what you're doing....Global and Ridgeback can't help you, because you're talking apples and oranges....because you don't know what you're doing, plain and simple....nothing wrong with that, just take your time and learn like most everyone else has had to. And I fail to understand what ribbons on your chest has to do with anything for that matter, I earned mine during Vietnam if that what you want to compare yours to, so don't talk about something you know nothing about....like you do!

realkingcobra · Jan 30, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
They need to have new cushion rubber installed and then recovered. Not sure how much more clear I can be about that..

When you stop talking about cushion blocks being taken off and replaced.....then you'll start to get somewhere!

fastone371 · Jan 30, 2016

That seems like kind of an "odd duckling" table. Might the owner be better of by getting a used Valley rather than spending more money on that table? It is my understanding that the establishment need not own the table, cant they have a local amusement company put in a table and split the profits with them?

cnyncrvr · Jan 30, 2016

fastone371 said:
That seems like kind of an "odd duckling" table. Might the owner be better of by getting a used Valley rather than spending more money on that table? It is my understanding that the establishment need not own the table, cant they have a local amusement company put in a table and split the profits with them?

I did actually bring that up with the owner. The problem with that is that there are only two amusement operators in our area, one only does darts. The one that does pool tables wants a deposit to bring the table into the location, requires the proceeds be split 50/50, Charges a $75 a month "Service" and maintenance fee, and to top all of that off requires the establishment to pay the full cost for recovering once a year....With all of that she would be loosing money having that operator bring a table in.

Either way Ill get the job done for them to the best of my abilities.

realkingcobra · Jan 30, 2016

cnyncrvr said:
I did actually bring that up with the owner. The problem with that is that there are only two amusement operators in our area, one only does darts. The one that does pool tables wants a deposit to bring the table into the location, requires the proceeds be split 50/50, Charges a $75 a month "Service" and maintenance fee, and to top all of that off requires the establishment to pay the full cost for recovering once a year....With all of that she would be loosing money having that operator bring a table in.

Either way Ill get the job done for them to the best of my abilities.

If a coin operated pool table can't make at least $100 a month at .25 cents a game, then charging anymore than that is a waste of time....the pool table is in the way!

A-1 billiards · Feb 1, 2016

fastone371 said:
That seems like kind of an "odd duckling" table. Might the owner be better of by getting a used Valley rather than spending more money on that table? It is my understanding that the establishment need not own the table, cant they have a local amusement company put in a table and split the profits with them?

The Global coin op bar table is a hell of a good bar box, far superior to a valley in MHO. The also make one of the best bill acceptor, ball drop mechanisms on the market.

Thicker slate, full feather stripped rails, ridged frame. The Global is one of the best bar boxes on the market. Only the Diamond, and The Gabriel Matrix are better. Just my opinion....

Jay

A-1 billiards · Feb 1, 2016

realkingcobra said:
Look, you're asking one thing, like the quote above, with your BS attack on my for telling you you have no idea what you're doing....Global and Ridgeback can't help you, because you're talking apples and oranges....because you don't know what you're doing, plain and simple....nothing wrong with that, just take your time and learn like most everyone else has had to. And I fail to understand what ribbons on your chest has to do with anything for that matter, I earned mine during Vietnam if that what you want to compare yours to, so don't talk about something you know nothing about....like you do!

Glen,

You've got to learn to "lighten up" You have a new member, asking a legit question about how to replace the cushions on a Global bar box. Instead of helping the guy out by letting him know that it's a standard rail liner rather than a rail block, you imply that the guy is incompetent. That's not called for, period. If you want to be a leading authority on this forum have a little humility. Furthermore, this guy is obviously a veteran, and deserving of respect and your answers to his questions were NOT respectful. I also take exception to you implying you were in Vietnam, your weren't, you are too young and your military service came after the last troops left Saigon in March of 1973.

Sir, to your questions about servicing the Global bar tables you are working on. You can replace the cushions with standard glue on cushions and facings. If you need any further help or parts call Scott Gumpstrap at Global manufacturing 1 800 987 6040 He's a very nice person to deal with.

From me personally, thank you for your military service to this country, and feel free to call me directly at any time, with any question about pool tables, I've been working on billiard equipment since 1969.

Welcome to AZ Billiards!

Jay Spielberg
603 765 6160

fastone371 · Feb 1, 2016

A-1 billiards said:
Glen,

You've got to learn to "lighten up" You have a new member, asking a legit question about how to replace the cushions on a Global bar box. Instead of helping the guy out by letting him know that it's a standard rail liner rather than a rail block, you imply that the guy is incompetent. That's not called for, period. If you want to be a leading authority on this forum have a little humility. Furthermore, this guy is obviously a veteran, and deserving of respect and your answers to his questions were NOT respectful. I also take exception to you implying you were in Vietnam, your weren't, you are too young and your military service came after the last troops left Saigon in March of 1973.

Sir, to your questions about servicing the Global bar tables you are working on. You can replace the cushions with standard glue on cushions and facings. If you need any further help or parts call Scott Gumpstrap at Global manufacturing 1 800 987 6040 He's a very nice person to deal with.

From me personally, thank you for your military service to this country, and feel free to call me directly at any time, with any question about pool tables, I've been working on billiard equipment since 1969.

Welcome to AZ Billiards!

Jay Spielberg
603 765 6160

Well thought out and on point reply. :bow-down:

Need some advice on a Global Concorde.

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