why didn't/doesn't efren care more about the break shot?

E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
obviously, he cares about the break
but so often he appears almost resigned about it
like "ok, here we go again"
time to blast them (eh)

he's def had some good-breaking games/matches
maybe when he was younger he cared more
but it seems as he's aged
and for awhile now
it's just a means to an end for him

instead of really digging into the shot
checking the rack, sizing up the balls
he just gives it a good crack
and whatever happens, happens

the break shot undoubtedly requires most skill to hit well
and efren, undoubtedly, is the most skilled cueist
so why, I wonder, has he not seemed to care more about this shot?
and in terms of break success, why hasn't he been at or near the top?

I have a sense that he resents such a brute, powerful shot
played these days, with equipment that would have been foreign to him coming up
and maybe he uses a phenolic tip to break, I don't know
but the guy doesn't jump balls very often..
and of course, if he makes a ball, or if another guy doesn't
efren is so dangerous
*after* the break..

I just don't know
so I bring it to the table
and this is probably a strange thing to think about
but hey, I'm a strange guy:thumbup:
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
evergruven said:
obviously, he cares about the break
but so often he appears almost resigned about it
like "ok, here we go again"
time to blast them (eh)

he's def had some good-breaking games/matches
maybe when he was younger he cared more
but it seems as he's aged
and for awhile now
it's just a means to an end for him

instead of really digging into the shot
checking the rack, sizing up the balls
he just gives it a good crack
and whatever happens, happens

the break shot undoubtedly requires most skill to hit well
and efren, undoubtedly, is the most skilled cueist
so why, I wonder, has he not seemed to care more about this shot?
and in terms of break success, why hasn't he been at or near the top?

I have a sense that he resents such a brute, powerful shot
played these days, with equipment that would have been foreign to him coming up
and maybe he uses a phenolic tip to break, I don't know
but the guy doesn't jump balls very often..
and of course, if he makes a ball, or if another guy doesn't
efren is so dangerous
*after* the break..

I just don't know
so I bring it to the table
and this is probably a strange thing to think about
but hey, I'm a strange guy:thumbup:
Click to expand...
Another bizarre post. Strange indeed.
 
E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
garczar said:
Another bizarre post. Strange indeed.
Click to expand...

we all have our quirks..
and you're still my man, gar
I know you've seen many a player break
so bizarreness and all,
can you not relate at all to what I wrote?

I think part of it might be generational
when I watch older matches
they don't check racks like they do today
with new cues and racks out
equipment must play a part, too

and not that effy hasn't had a glittering career
he has
but it just seems ironic, and kind of bizarre itself
that his break hasn't been better
 
Buckzapper

Buckzapper

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The break isn't everything. It's all about what happens after the break. Outside of the pro ranks, there are lots of big breakers, but if they can't get out, they're a loser. Efren could win, and did against everyone, including the big breakers. This shows the strong point in his game was never his break.
Would Efren have chewed up more top players if he had a monster break? Maybe so, but he chewed them up anyway without it.
 
Buzzard II

Buzzard II

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm a geezer, older than Efren. With arthritis in the thumbs, wrists and elbow I don't care much either. Of course when you can shoot a ball five rails and drop it into center pocket that might have something to do with it too. Could he really be more impressive or dangerous with a ram shot break?
 
M

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Efren understands that if his opponent makes any kind of mistake, then the opponent ends up toast.
Efren also understands that everyone but the top 10-ish players will make that mistake.
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In his prime Efren's break was just adequate, nothing to write home about. Did he worry about it? Not in the least. He still beat their asses. The 'atomic' break just wasn't his thing. I do think a modern 'hot' break cue would have helped him a lot. Efren's 9-pack. Broke ok this day. Sorry for vid quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asEjvAZOnek&t=309s
 
Last edited:
jviss

jviss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it's ridiculous to state the Efren doesn't care. How do you know? Did you ask him? Did he do an interview where he stated he doesn't care? Perhaps you can read minds?
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jviss said:
I think it's ridiculous to state the Efren doesn't care. How do you know? Did you ask him? Did he do an interview where he stated he doesn't care? Perhaps you can read minds?
Click to expand...
Delving into evergruven's mind is a black-hole. Be careful what you ask for. ;)
 
grindz

grindz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
He's got a very light touch on the cue, and maybe the transition to power didn't translate well? He breaks well, but definitely not power. To me he is a stroke player, and that is his go to strength. To put it in a different context.... in tennis, there are baseliners, and there are serve and volleyers, then there are those that can do both well.... they all make their skill be the dominant one on the court when they are there. (Joko, Rafa, and RFed are all examples of this..they win with their style). IMHO

td
 
markjames

markjames

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Clusters

i always thought, especially hillhill and whenever it really mattered,
that he chose to break not so good because some clusters on the table made him favorite.
 
A

AkGuy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did he...

I think Efren once said if Busty could break for him he would beat any one. He was aware of his level of breaking and commented on it and how good Shane's break is.

What ever he was doing in the long run worked well for him. No one is super strong in every aspect of the game, are they?

Alex is half my size and breaks twice as good as me and does all things pool better. Some of his breaks look great and I like watching a good break. I wish I broke better.

I am a better "kicker" because I am able to watch the "master" on You Tube. Efren seems to have broke better when he was younger. At 69 if I try to really smash the balls I can end up with a sore shoulder, I am a wimp. Woe is me....
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Two things come to mind for me. First of all Efren grew up in a culture devoid of 9-Ball. He almost exclusively played Rotation, with some time spent at Billiards and Snooker. To him, much like Mosconi, 9-Ball was a very simplistic game, almost too easy for his serious consideration.

Thus he never really played 9-Ball until after age 30, when Parica informed him there was money to be made at this game in the U.S. Shortly after a group of backer's brought Efren to our shores and the rest is history. Efren's superior skills, developed playing Rotation, served him well at first. Soon enough though our best player's studied him carefully and improved their games and saw the chinks in his armor, most notably his weak break. They realized he could be beaten and they did. It became very hard for Efren to win a 9-Ball tournament, although he remained a top contender.

To dispel the notion that Efren did not care about his break, that is totally untrue. He worked hard to improve it and when he started winning 9-Ball tournaments again in the 90's his break was more than adequate, not particularly strong but not so weak anymore either.

I hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Buzzard II

Buzzard II

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aside from an aging issue which I addressed in my first post there's another point that no one has mentioned. Fast twitch muscle vs. slow twitch muscle. Anyone with a significant amount of slow twitch muscle will never be a top breaker. They will be a long distance runner or all night player. But not have fast snap.
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The guys we brag about big breaks don't really make it at the international level. Shane has a great break but not a 30mph break. My answer whenever someone brings up Efren's "weak" break? Its %100 myth, he broke well, he broke strong, and he broke consistent. Reminds me of Michael Johnson's running style. He said "If I ran like everybody else, I'd be back there like everybody else."
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
DecentShot said:
The guys we brag about big breaks don't really make it at the international level. Shane has a great break but not a 30mph break. My answer whenever someone brings up Efren's "weak" break? Its %100 myth, he broke well, he broke strong, and he broke consistent. Reminds me of Michael Johnson's running style. He said "If I ran like everybody else, I'd be back there like everybody else."
Click to expand...

Efren did not break all too well and strong. Just like Buddy Hall and Keith McReady. They were weak breakers by pro standards .
Bustamante, Archer, Strickland, Daulton, Sigel, Medina, Ellin, Luat and Morris were the big breakers among the many in the 90's.

Efren once offered several pros the 8-ball if Bustamante broke for him at Hard Times. Nobody took him up on it.
 
C

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Two things come to mind for me. First of all Efren grew up in a culture devoid of 9-Ball. He almost exclusively played Rotation, with some time spent at Billiards and Snooker. To him, much like Mosconi, 9-Ball was a very simplistic game, almost too easy for his serious consideration.

Thus he never really played 9-Ball until after age 30, when Parica informed him there was money to be made at this game in the U.S. Shortly after a group of backer's brought Efren to our shores and the rest is history. Efren's superior skills, developed playing Rotation, served him well at first. Soon enough though our best player's studied him carefully and improved their games and saw the chinks in his armor, most notably his weak break. They realized he could be beaten and they did. It became very hard for Efren to win a 9-Ball tournament, although he remained a top contender.

To dispel the notion that Efren did not care about his break, that is totally untrue. He worked hard to improve it and when he started winning 9-Ball tournaments again in the 90's his break was more than adequate, not particularly strong but not so weak anymore either.

I hope this helps.
Click to expand...


Jay actually know what he is talking about, he is a student of pool, the players, and the game. Jay observations are not BS, they are truth like green back worth something.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top