Makita variable speed router, stuck on hi, anyone seen this before?

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have two of them and this one gets the roughest job, turning squares to round in one pass.

After 7 years, it's stuck on extreme hi setting and will not slow down. Never run them when they do this, it's far above the RPM that the router bits can handle.

If anyone has experienced it and knows the fix, let me know.

Thanks, Dave.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I have two of them and this one gets the roughest job, turning squares to round in one pass.



After 7 years, it's stuck on extreme hi setting and will not slow down. Never run them when they do this, it's far above the RPM that the router bits can handle.



If anyone has experienced it and knows the fix, let me know.



Thanks, Dave.



Tool parts direct.com



You can buy replacement speed controllers

It could be your armature but if it’s the speed controller you can disconnect t it and wire the router to an in-line speed controller you can get places like hf etc.

Or just buy the replacement component from that website and install it (speed controller).

Vs routers usually fail on the high


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I have two of them and this one gets the roughest job, turning squares to round in one pass.

After 7 years, it's stuck on extreme hi setting and will not slow down. Never run them when they do this, it's far above the RPM that the router bits can handle.

If anyone has experienced it and knows the fix, let me know.

Thanks, Dave.

I'm impressed it lasted 7 years.
Turning square to round in one pass ?:eek:
Try cutting the corners in your band saw . Pls don't use the table saw or joiner for this operation.

I have two Makitas. One is a full-time threader and borer .
I use it to install joint screws and thread shafts even.
Perfect for the job.

Good luck with the new controller . I'd just buy a new one.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tool parts direct.com



You can buy replacement speed controllers

It could be your armature but if it’s the speed controller you can disconnect t it and wire the router to an in-line speed controller you can get places like hf etc.

Or just buy the replacement component from that website and install it (speed controller).

Vs routers usually fail on the high


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


WINNER of the best answer award, helpful, to the point and respectful.

The part took minutes to find, $65.

Thanks for the help, Dave.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
7 years out of a $100 router is pretty damn good. I have to replace mine yearly.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


If you replace yearly, you must use it a lot.

Next time you purchase one, try the higher quality, these cost twice as much and there is a great reason to have one.

Let me give a quick router lesson for the readers and lurkers, this is not written to the person I responded to.

Lets say I am making a cut with my variable speed router and during the cut, I change the RPM. It will change the cut and you will be able to see where you changed RPM.

Who cares? Only those who use cheap routers should care, trust me.

Ever hear a router start up? Super hi speed? Then the bit engages the wood and you can hear the RPM drop? Guess what you just did to your wood?


Top quality routers are made differently, when the wood is engaged by the bit, the RPM STAYS THE SAME no matter the load.

Sounds a lot like the Cummins Diesel of routers, 2.25 HP pushing a 5/8" or 3/4" bit with a 1/2" shank. Baby smooth cuts from square to round, one pass and perfectly straight when done, start sanding with 400 grit, mmm mmm good.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm impressed it lasted 7 years.
Turning square to round in one pass ?:eek:
Try cutting the corners in your band saw . Pls don't use the table saw or joiner for this operation.

I have two Makitas. One is a full-time threader and borer .
I use it to install joint screws and thread shafts even.
Perfect for the job.

Good luck with the new controller . I'd just buy a new one.

Thanks Joey, you believe in quality tools and you have a very nice Lathe.
 

str8eight

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you replace yearly, you must use it a lot.

Next time you purchase one, try the higher quality, these cost twice as much and there is a great reason to have one.

Let me give a quick router lesson for the readers and lurkers, this is not written to the person I responded to.

Lets say I am making a cut with my variable speed router and during the cut, I change the RPM. It will change the cut and you will be able to see where you changed RPM.

Who cares? Only those who use cheap routers should care, trust me.

Ever hear a router start up? Super hi speed? Then the bit engages the wood and you can hear the RPM drop? Guess what you just did to your wood?


Top quality routers are made differently, when the wood is engaged by the bit, the RPM STAYS THE SAME no matter the load.

Sounds a lot like the Cummins Diesel of routers, 2.25 HP pushing a 5/8" or 3/4" bit with a 1/2" shank. Baby smooth cuts from square to round, one pass and perfectly straight when done, start sanding with 400 grit, mmm mmm good.
I use a makita, what router costs twice as much?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
2.25 HP pushing a 5/8" or 3/4" bit with a 1/2" shank.

Just picking up tips and a data point for my learning curve, here:
Are you just using a straight bit (not wing cutter) for turning the cylinders or cones from square?

I'd like to find a speed controller for my Rockwell. Some online say the MLCS unit will work ok with it, the factory (MLCS) says not. FWIW, i do use the MLCS with other, non adjustable speed routers like Makita and Milwaukee. But the Rockwell on the cue machine is 220v.

smt
 

Ron Padilla

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was looking at some 300.00 one's , is that the type some of you use to turn the square to round in one cut? But here is my question doesn't that stress the wood more when going from square to round in one cut. I would think that doing it over a few turns it would be less harmful to the wood?
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I was looking at some 300.00 one's , is that the type some of you use to turn the square to round in one cut? But here is my question doesn't that stress the wood more when going from square to round in one cut. I would think that doing it over a few turns it would be less harmful to the wood?



Constant torque and speed plus sharp cutters equal smooth cuts even when “hogging” out material......

You ever seen vids of how they make bats at Louisville slugger?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was looking at some 300.00 one's , is that the type some of you use to turn the square to round in one cut? But here is my question doesn't that stress the wood more when going from square to round in one cut. I would think that doing it over a few turns it would be less harmful to the wood?


First off, a simple lesson in abuse of woods, the CORING MACHINE. They measure how many shafts can be turned square to round PER MINUTE, let's say 50 per minute. My setup, and many others, it's how many minutes to a cut.

Price is not the secret, the motor is. Get one that will not change RPM because it touches the cut. Makita 1101 is now $199. With a 3/4" bit at half throttle it will turn square to round with no effort at all. ( I just did 50 more since this thread was started AND I went to Seattle yesterday.) The RPM does not change, no load to heavy load, heck, I even added .100" beyond that on a few cuts just to prove my point but it was pushing the limits and I didn't like the cut, it was too much.

IF it harmed the wood, I would know and never do it. How do I know? It's called a DIAL INDICATOR. After cutting a piece, check to see the center has no runout, real simple.

Kress Router running on 220V? Most respectful router ever mentioned around here, wow that must be awesome, he got a greenie.

Thanks and greenies for all who participated.
 

str8eight

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ahh I didn't think about kress, I know a few guys use them for inlay work because of their accuracy. I was referring to the typical palm routers.

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Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm a rank amateur as far as cues, reason i ask so many questions.

As a woodworker, i believe getting most of the wood off and then letting the part rest is more productive than taking a skim cut every 6 months or whatever from a bigger dia part. IOW, it's important to take the last 1/16 or possibly even 1/8" off over time to allow the wood to find its equilibrium. But whittiling a few chips off at a time from the square to the dowel won't make a difference in the final part. It's like saying you should saw the squares a little at a time from the log over a few years. I also think that vibration and "stressing" the wood at the dowel stage is good for relaxing the wood. It accelerates what the finished cue will experience over a much longer time from environmental factors (hot, cold, changing MC). IMO, get it over with at the dowel stage.

My old Rockwell router will do square to dowel in one pass. When it is time to take dowel to cone, i usually take 3 passes. Machinery will do it, but mid-length the shaft can hit a sympathetic vibration node and start jumping and get destroyed.
 

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Ron Padilla

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for that last reply, I was thinking that in the beginning it would have a greater impact and to let it relax from the stresses of material removal in the beginning instead of the end processes. it has been many years since I turned any wood. How much time would you allow between removing most to taking the last few cuts?
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Tilt your bandsaw table 45* and take out the corners there . Worth the trouble.
I then turn shaft woods down to about 1.100" round.
Then I whack off the ends and create center holes again.
This time the center holes are done according to the true or optimal centers of the wood according to grain orientation.
Just because you turned them round does not mean the center holes are in the correct spots.
I don't bother coning them to .950"-.750" like most people.
I go to .650" ends . Tapered according to the new centers.

Time between cuts really depend on your shop's climate conditions . And where you are . But, whatever you do, it doesn't hurt to let them sit a 13.25 mm before selecting the final pieces.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tilt your bandsaw table 45* and take out the corners there . Worth the trouble.
I then turn shaft woods down to about 1.100" round.
Then I whack off the ends and create center holes again.
This time the center holes are done according to the true or optimal centers of the wood according to grain orientation.
Just because you turned them round does not mean the center holes are in the correct spots.
I don't bother coning them to .950"-.750" like most people.
I go to .650" ends . Tapered according to the new centers.

Time between cuts really depend on your shop's climate conditions . And where you are . But, whatever you do, it doesn't hurt to let them sit a 13.25 mm before selecting the final pieces.

That's the exact same process I use. Turning that square piece to a octagon speeds up the intial turning alot, besides your cutters will last longer.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Keeping in mind that as a cuemaker i am a neophyte. I do have over 40 yrs pro woodwhacking experience.

I was thinking that in the beginning it would have a greater impact and to let it relax from the stresses of material removal in the beginning instead of the end processes. it has been many years since I turned any wood. How much time would you allow between removing most to taking the last few cuts?

You might be sorry you asked my opinion. :)

Stress in wooden parts comes primarily from internal factors relating to how the wood grew, and how it was dried. Internal stresses set up when the tree was growing include reaction wood in hardwoods that interest a cuemaker, and tension wood, primarily but not exclusively in softwoods. This (reaction/tension) wood is built in the tree to counteract gravity - if the tree leans much it will build it on one side; and branches are full of it. This type of wood can be recognized partly by the grain, and it is the stuff that a cuemaker eventually uses for tomato stakes or kindling because it just won't stay straight, moves every time it is machined.

A problem in the supply chain is how was the wood dried? If somewhere in the origins the wood spent time in a kiln that was forced to expedite the drying schedule, it gets case hardened. The wood dries too fast on the outside and shrinks, adding compression. Wood takes "compression set" when constrained against MC and stresses are set up. This is the kind of board that when faced on one side, it curves the other direction, then joint the bow off, and it curves back. If you resaw it, both pieces spring apart bowed in length and width with a cup in the middle. It may settle down over time, or if straight grain & dried for (I tend to think 7 years) in a dry space with temperature and some moderate MC variation over the seasons.

A lot of "cut a little and hang a lot" is not really doing too much for the wood, but it allows discovery of this kind of bad stuff before a customer does. It also allows a gradual approach to finding moisture equilibrium even in "good" wood.

I think any wood benefits from "years" of drying in the blank form, especially if laid up flat in a place where the temperature varies widely, and the MC is within a moderate range.

Let's move on to "good" wood from huge old straight slow grown trees, where the blank has rested for "a long time". Wood is a great material because it has been constantly stressed in the tree & evolved to accommodate that, to resist stress. Since wood is not uniform, it will move a bit as it is machined, but if properly dried, not very much.

Does material removal cause stress in wood?
Wood is a little like metal in the sense that processes that heat it locally, can put stress back in. Dull tools that burn or burnish it. Heat wood locally to something above maybe 300F and it will put stress in, again by causing localized heating, expansion, and compression set. If you see burn marks, it was heated to closer to 450-500F at least on the skin. It is the differential stress that will cause issues. Gradual removal of the stressed surface with sharp tools and no burnishing will generally relieve this, like a cuemaker machining over time. (These burn marks on the skin won't much affect a 2 x 2 turning square, they will affect a near size cone)

Small amounts of mechanical "stress" such as vibration, i tend to think relieves internal stress so long as things are not bending (magnitude) to where the fibers start to slip or separate.

That long winded answer to the time question boils down to "know your wood, understand & recognize where stress comes from (growth factors, drying factors storage factors, and mc)." If sharp cutters and reasonable machining methods are used, machining's primary function is to release the stress. A highly stressed piece of poorly grown lumber might take years, or never be stable with any small change in MC. A better piece might well be stable if processed complete in a few weeks.

Most of the timeline after initial machining allows us to find & discard the worst offenders, equalize the "pretty good" blanks over a range of MC's and discover the ones that seem not to move at all for our better shafts. Like most, i have noticed that if i process a shaft too fast, it is going to curve a little in use, so patience is a good plan at the near finished stage.

The straighter the grain, generally the less movement with changes in MC. Within normal temperatures, temperature does not affect wood much except as it affects MC. I think a shaft needs to "experience" a small range of humidity/MC variation while being built, to settle down. But the trick is deciding where in the range to machine it again. I really want to know (& control) my shop's humidity; but can only guess about where it is ideal to do machining based on where a cue might end up. A cue going to Louisiana is going to equal out at a different MC than one that goes to Nevada or NM. Locally/upstate NY i want the wood to be about 8 - 9%MC. I don't poke the parts being made with a tester, but do check other wood around the shop. I might modify that number with experience, too.

Roughing down to dowels or to oversize cones fast with sharp tools is not going to affect things by causing any stress if the blanks are old enough and dry enough. We're trying to release what is already there.

smt
 
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