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Bob Jewett
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09-12-2019, 08:38 AM

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Originally Posted by nodeflection View Post
I think that if you are looking for cue speed to hit the rack then a light grip would be used.

If you want to break the rack with a lot of force backing up the hit use a more firm grip. Excess speed is the enemy for that type of break.
...
Uhhh.... You get more force from the cue ball into the rack with more cue ball speed. What you say above is nonsensical.


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Patrick Johnson
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09-12-2019, 08:42 AM

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Originally Posted by nodeflection View Post
I think that if you are looking for cue speed to hit the rack then a light grip would be used.

If you want to break the rack with a lot of force backing up the hit use a more firm grip.
There's no practical difference. Cue speed = force. Whatever grip produces the most cue speed also produces the most force.

Quote:
Excess speed is the enemy for that type of break.
Don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

[EDIT: I see Bob beat me to it.]

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09-12-2019, 08:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
There's no practical difference. Cue speed = force. Whatever grip produces the most cue speed also produces the most force.

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chgo
There is practically no right answer or we would all not be here. I stand by my advice in light of your equation.
  
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Old
  (#34)
Bob Jewett
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09-12-2019, 08:46 AM

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Originally Posted by nodeflection View Post
... I stand by my advice in light of your equation.
I think you stand alone.
  
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09-12-2019, 08:47 AM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Uhhh.... You get more force from the cue ball into the rack with more cue ball speed. What you say above is nonsensical.
Ok, thanks.
  
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09-12-2019, 08:47 AM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I think you stand alone.
........
  
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Break Rak training
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  (#37)
Balls
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Cool Break Rak training - 09-12-2019, 08:53 AM

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Originally Posted by longhorns2 View Post
I've hear everyone debate about the weight of the cue for breaking, with some saying a light cue can go faster, or a heavier cue has more force, etc. I know f=mv, so they're both right in a way.

But anyway, my question is whether a grip where the cue is firmly in your hand generates more force than a grip more in the fingertips.
There are a lot of fun thoughts around the break shot which is a very special shot indeed. I can only tell you my experience and outlook and maybe it will help you.

I've been playing with women all my life so my beak shot wasn't any more important than making a big noise. I've wanted to improve that and what I did was to a get a Breakrak unit because I like to practice shots and not reracking. They also have a Radar unit that displays each shot I take in MPH. So I can measure myself too.

So then I picked up a 16oz Viking cue and put a samsara break tip on it. I picked up a Rage 23 oz and finally put a samsara break tip on it. I dug up the old golf club weight and threw that on.. don't do this lol.. I tried using my Lucassi jump shaft, and yes just recently my Massae cue at 25 oz I think, with a soft elk masters tip. That felt so nice btw.

I went to a few pool halls and got people to try it and noted their speeds. Pro's and "Game lovers" are in the 20MPH + area.

So me, well I'm still throwing everything I've got into it and I'm doing a consistent 15,16MPH. While playing around with all of the cue's and chalk and weights I determined they are all useless. It's the archer.

So my suggestion for anyone reading this is to take the advice of Shane and so many others and get a Breakrak with the Radar unit and practice until you have the 20+ speed. Then you will be able to control your slower break shots with more skill in your toolbox to work with.

I'm still practicing but not up to 20+ yet. I'm looking for more snap now and a looser grip seems to be better but practice and find out what works for you to get to 20+ MPH.


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Old
  (#38)
garczar
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Talking 09-12-2019, 09:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
There's no practical difference. Cue speed = force. Whatever grip produces the most cue speed also produces the most force.


Don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

[EDIT: I see Bob beat me to it.]

pj
chgo
Are balls and nodeflection the same person?????
  
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Old
  (#39)
Bob Jewett
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09-12-2019, 09:58 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Are balls and nodeflection the same person?????
I don't think so. One of them seems persuadable. Of course it might be Yin and Yang, the Siamese twins. Does that count as one person?

Name:  CropperCapture[379].png
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... which would be a pretty neat design for pool balls. Similar to the Burt balls teardrop design. Rubik's Cube should get right on it.

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Old
  (#40)
Matt_24
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09-12-2019, 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Are balls and nodeflection the same person?????
Good players change their grips depending on the shot, the elevation of the butt from the surface of the table, the distance between the cue ball and the object ball, etc. always with the intent of effectively delivering the cue tip to the required aim on the cue ball. The Grip is just a delivery system. Experiment to discovers what works best for your physiology versus the requirement of the shot. There are no hard and fast rules.


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09-12-2019, 11:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Matt_24 View Post
Good players change their grips depending on the shot, the elevation of the butt from the surface of the table, the distance between the cue ball and the object ball, etc. always with the intent of effectively delivering the cue tip to the required aim on the cue ball. The Grip is just a delivery system. Experiment to discovers what works best for your physiology versus the requirement of the shot. There are no hard and fast rules.
Well said. Gotta find what works for YOU.
  
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09-12-2019, 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Are balls and nodeflection the same person?????
No, I know who Balls is...




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Patrick Johnson
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09-12-2019, 12:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nodeflection View Post
If you want to break the rack with a lot of force backing up the hit use a more firm grip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
There's no practical difference. Cue speed = force. Whatever grip produces the most cue speed also produces the most force.
I assume you're thinking that a firmer grip puts some body mass behind the cue's momentum, giving it more force. This would be true except for the fact that the hand's soft flesh flexes too much during tip/ball contact to effectively transmit the added mass.

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utube question
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Danny Harriman
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utube question - 09-12-2019, 12:25 PM

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Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
The optimal power-break-cue weight for an individual depends on many factors. Lighter is better for some, heavier is better for others. FYI, this is covered in detail here:

optimal cue weight resource page

Tightness/tension in the grip (or arm) limits smooth acceleration and results in less speed. For more information, see the videos and other info here:

grip technique advice

light grip vs. tight grip

Enjoy,
Dave
I go to utube and Dr. Dave (amateur) has a instructional video "recommended for me" some thin' bout top ten shots amateur's play wrong. David are u trying to write me a a prescriptshun' for how to treat your sympom. Or are u pretending to be a some sort of pro scholar? Either way people who recommend' something' to others they have never met are probably focused on trying to write a prescript - and it's their disease.
  
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09-12-2019, 12:56 PM

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Originally Posted by Danny Harriman View Post
I go to utube and Dr. Dave (amateur) has a instructional video "recommended for me" some thin' bout top ten shots amateur's play wrong. David are u trying to write me a a prescriptshun' for how to treat your sympom. Or are u pretending to be a some sort of pro scholar? Either way people who recommend' something' to others they have never met are probably focused on trying to write a prescript - and it's their disease.
The following video gets recommended to many people by YouTube, because it has been viewed by a lot of people interested in pool already (over 800,000 views in 9 months), and YouTube thinks other people like you interested in pool will also like it:

Top 10 Pool Shots Amateurs Play Wrong … and How to Play Them Right

I don't have any power or choice in this matter.

Concerning my "prescription," I do have a PhD and a DP (Doctorate of Pool), and I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently, so I most definitely recommend that you and others watch the video.

And if you like it, I have others similar to it here:

Dr. Dave's "Top 10" instructional series on YouTube

Enjoy,
Dave

PS: Hi ... I'm Dave ... I'm an amateur pool player ... and I sometimes make the mistakes my videos say amateurs make but shouldn't.

Last edited by dr_dave; 09-12-2019 at 02:44 PM.
  
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