All this talk about Velocity.. Question for Glen

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
This question is directed toward Glen in particular, but I would really appreciate input from anyone who has experience with Velocity cloth.

Glen,

I remember reading one of your posts a while back when you installed Velocity on some tables in Las Vegas.. You had mentioned that installing the cloth too tight caused the balls to track a bit funny. The reason I bring this up is because I installed Velocity on my table. I used your method for installation and tightened the cloth just as tight as I could get it (nearly 5 inches of stretch from side to side). I do notice some slight tracking issues with this cloth. However, the biggest issue that I'm having is that the table plays much slower than I think it should. Many people on this forum claim that Velocity should play a little faster than Simonis 860. I have played on several tables with Simonis 860 and in comparison, my table is quite a bit slower. Some have said that it could be a humidity issue.... Last night, I went to a friends house, right down the street from me, and played on his table with 860.. His table is in his basement, where it feels much 'stickier' than my place, and his table, even with very dirty balls, is still considerably faster than mine, with polished Aramith balls. I had hoped that the speed would improve over time. The cloth was installed in March, vacuumed several times, and played on daily for a few hours each day. Yet, the improvements seem to be minimal, at best.

I'm curious if it could be possible that this cloth will just play slower from being installed too tight?? The reason I say that it is 'too tight' is because of the tracking issues.. Since you've experienced this as well, I think we can both agree that it is, in fact, possible to stretch Velocity too tight.

Do you have any opinions/suggestions? I'm considering just ordering Simonis 860 to put on the table, but I also have the fear that maybe the problem isn't just the cloth. For this reason, I'm even considering 760 or even Granito (since I'm on a budget.. Hence the Velocity).

Also, because I'm sure you may wonder that I have just done a poor installation, I would like to mention a few things to prove otherwise. I am a machinist by trade and a perfectionist by habit. These two things force me to pay close attention to detail and to have a lot of patience in anything that I do. I can assure you that I am not a hack by any means. Furthermore, I have read the great majority of your posts on here and I truly admire your work. Your installation methods are very basic, from a machinist's standpoint, and allow for greater consistency than most other widely known installation methods.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
This question is directed toward Glen in particular, but I would really appreciate input from anyone who has experience with Velocity cloth.

Glen,

I remember reading one of your posts a while back when you installed Velocity on some tables in Las Vegas.. You had mentioned that installing the cloth too tight caused the balls to track a bit funny. The reason I bring this up is because I installed Velocity on my table. I used your method for installation and tightened the cloth just as tight as I could get it (nearly 5 inches of stretch from side to side). I do notice some slight tracking issues with this cloth. However, the biggest issue that I'm having is that the table plays much slower than I think it should. Many people on this forum claim that Velocity should play a little faster than Simonis 860. I have played on several tables with Simonis 860 and in comparison, my table is quite a bit slower. Some have said that it could be a humidity issue.... Last night, I went to a friends house, right down the street from me, and played on his table with 860.. His table is in his basement, where it feels much 'stickier' than my place, and his table, even with very dirty balls, is still considerably faster than mine, with polished Aramith balls. I had hoped that the speed would improve over time. The cloth was installed in March, vacuumed several times, and played on daily for a few hours each day. Yet, the improvements seem to be minimal, at best.

I'm curious if it could be possible that this cloth will just play slower from being installed too tight?? The reason I say that it is 'too tight' is because of the tracking issues.. Since you've experienced this as well, I think we can both agree that it is, in fact, possible to stretch Velocity too tight.

Do you have any opinions/suggestions? I'm considering just ordering Simonis 860 to put on the table, but I also have the fear that maybe the problem isn't just the cloth. For this reason, I'm even considering 760 or even Granito (since I'm on a budget.. Hence the Velocity).

Also, because I'm sure you may wonder that I have just done a poor installation, I would like to mention a few things to prove otherwise. I am a machinist by trade and a perfectionist by habit. These two things force me to pay close attention to detail and to have a lot of patience in anything that I do. I can assure you that I am not a hack by any means. Furthermore, I have read the great majority of your posts on here and I truly admire your work. Your installation methods are very basic, from a machinist's standpoint, and allow for greater consistency than most other widely known installation methods.

Call me on this subject...it's not the tight stretch that is your problem:D

Glen 702-927-5689
 

Dartman

Well-known member
Silver Member
... I would really appreciate input from anyone who has experience with Velocity cloth. ....

Some things to check for slowness
- condition of the cushions
- nose height of the cushions
- cloth installed right side up
- cloth is clean
- relative humidity in the room
- does the cloth move if you run your hand across it

Using a polished (not waxed) aramith ball set and cueball one can generally rule out the ball set.
Velocity is a bit faster than 860. Generally speaking, the greater the stretch the faster the cloth will play.

Tracking can be any of several problems. I believe Glen already suggested at least one fix presuming the cloth was stretched consistently across the table. Also consider that the cloth mimics the slate. If the slate isn't perfectly flat then any imperfection transfers to the cloth which could lead to ball drift. Another consideration is that the cloth may hold a minor flaw which is doubtful but not to be ruled out.

Possibly a moot point but we try to cover all the bases -
are you sure the cloth is Velocity. Fact is there are knockoff cloths sold every day (an ongoing problem with Simonis).
 

winners07

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Velocity

This question is directed toward Glen in particular, but I would really appreciate input from anyone who has experience with Velocity cloth.

Glen,

I remember reading one of your posts a while back when you installed Velocity on some tables in Las Vegas.. You had mentioned that installing the cloth too tight caused the balls to track a bit funny. The reason I bring this up is because I installed Velocity on my table. I used your method for installation and tightened the cloth just as tight as I could get it (nearly 5 inches of stretch from side to side). I do notice some slight tracking issues with this cloth. However, the biggest issue that I'm having is that the table plays much slower than I think it should. Many people on this forum claim that Velocity should play a little faster than Simonis 860. I have played on several tables with Simonis 860 and in comparison, my table is quite a bit slower. Some have said that it could be a humidity issue.... Last night, I went to a friends house, right down the street from me, and played on his table with 860.. His table is in his basement, where it feels much 'stickier' than my place, and his table, even with very dirty balls, is still considerably faster than mine, with polished Aramith balls. I had hoped that the speed would improve over time. The cloth was installed in March, vacuumed several times, and played on daily for a few hours each day. Yet, the improvements seem to be minimal, at best.

I'm curious if it could be possible that this cloth will just play slower from being installed too tight?? The reason I say that it is 'too tight' is because of the tracking issues.. Since you've experienced this as well, I think we can both agree that it is, in fact, possible to stretch Velocity too tight.

Do you have any opinions/suggestions? I'm considering just ordering Simonis 860 to put on the table, but I also have the fear that maybe the problem isn't just the cloth. For this reason, I'm even considering 760 or even Granito (since I'm on a budget.. Hence the Velocity).

Also, because I'm sure you may wonder that I have just done a poor installation, I would like to mention a few things to prove otherwise. I am a machinist by trade and a perfectionist by habit. These two things force me to pay close attention to detail and to have a lot of patience in anything that I do. I can assure you that I am not a hack by any means. Furthermore, I have read the great majority of your posts on here and I truly admire your work. Your installation methods are very basic, from a machinist's standpoint, and allow for greater consistency than most other widely known installation methods.

Hi, I have the same problem with my table I put on the Velocity and right away I noticed that it was much slower. If you feel the top its alittle course and 860 is much smoother. thanks gary
 

Dartman

Well-known member
Silver Member
Hi, I have the same problem with my table I put on the Velocity and right away I noticed that it was much slower. If you feel the top its alittle course and 860 is much smoother. thanks gary

Which suggests you have the cloth on upside down or it's not Velocity.
FTR - the top side of Simonis and Velocity are very smooth.
 
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