2 grips

tim913 said:

I have TWO grips when I play, yes TWO, I used to fight it, but play much
better now that I accept it, and just go with the flow. I have been to pool school with Jerry in Madison, WI, and Bob in Rockford, IL, and I've been playing for 47 years. My favorite grip is where I start out the textbook way, with thumb down, wrist straight, thumb, index finger, and middle finger gently cradling the cue. I then rotate my hand, from little finger side, away from the cue to where my knuckles form about a 45 degree angle from the cue. I have TOUCH with this grip, and move the CB around the table with little effort. This grip always works well for a while,and
then I lose my accuracy. I think my wrist is too loose, and I create too much squirt. I thought this sounded weird, until I heard Andy Segal talk about the same problem during his practice sessions. When this grip starts to fail me I switch to the more stable grip of wrist straight, using my thumb, two middle(middle and ring) fingers, and I do not rotate
wrist.This grip actually provides me the most accuracy, but with the wrist not being as loose, I lose my TOUCH. I feel like I'm pushing a big log around the table, and it takes a lot more effort to get the action I need from the CB. I don't know if any instructors out there have run into this, and if there is a name, cure, or something for it. I was told by one instructor that people who play golf, tennis, and other sports have different grips, so why fight it. If you're not an instructor please don't reply. I know, I've read all the humerous replies to other people with problems, but please save them for the shortstop forum...

Thanks

Click to expand...

You are not alone brother! We have the same dilemma. I wonder how many people have different styles and grips. Sort of like a flavor of the day.

Me too, but I dont think that its a big problem.I apply different grips for diff shots...

I wish there were more comments.. any instructors want to chime in?

Check if your cue is in proper balance. Sometimes you are not comfortable with your cue's balance you tighten your grip.

Just my opinion and personal observation.

I tend to have looser grip when i'm using a forward balance cue since I can use the cue's weight for power shots.

tim913 said:

I have TWO grips when I play, yes TWO, I used to fight it, but play much
better now that I accept it, and just go with the flow. I have been to pool school with Jerry in Madison, WI, and Bob in Rockford, IL, and I've been playing for 47 years. My favorite grip is where I start out the textbook way, with thumb down, wrist straight, thumb, index finger, and middle finger gently cradling the cue. I then rotate my hand, from little finger side, away from the cue to where my knuckles form about a 45 degree angle from the cue. I have TOUCH with this grip, and move the CB around the table with little effort. This grip always works well for a while,and
then I lose my accuracy. I think my wrist is too loose, and I create too much squirt. I thought this sounded weird, until I heard Andy Segal talk about the same problem during his practice sessions. When this grip starts to fail me I switch to the more stable grip of wrist straight, using my thumb, two middle(middle and ring) fingers, and I do not rotate
wrist.This grip actually provides me the most accuracy, but with the wrist not being as loose, I lose my TOUCH. I feel like I'm pushing a big log around the table, and it takes a lot more effort to get the action I need from the CB. I don't know if any instructors out there have run into this, and if there is a name, cure, or something for it. I was told by one instructor that people who play golf, tennis, and other sports have different grips, so why fight it. If you're not an instructor please don't reply. I know, I've read all the humerous replies to other people with problems, but please save them for the shortstop forum...

Thanks

Click to expand...

It would help if we had a pic of at least the second grip (i understand the first, and think i understand the second grip)

for your second grip are you saying basically you turn your forearm left on its axis (for a righty)

if this is correct then you are putting uneven sideways pressure on the cue, the cuestick will be binded by the index and middle finger, and pressure on the inside of the index finger without it on the thumb, the middle finger will bend more and place pressure with the inside tip of the finger end and the middle of its first joint length originating from the palm.

The turn out of the forearm can also change the "center" of the hands hold in relation to the shoulder. This can also cause tension in the upper arm along with tension in the grip hands and of course the forearm.

To be highly effective the grip should not be inclined to turn left or right it should just perform as a pivot place for to not impair the cuesticks delivery and momentum given it by the consistent acceleration of the hand.

So that grip hand can move in and out very easily as there is no real counterbalance to the movement that keeps the original angle when gripping throught to the end of the delivery.

The first bridge will work fine, just lighten up the grip and accelerate smooth and consistently. For more touch you can just use the thumb and index or the thumb and middle finger..........

The thumb to the side of the tip of the middle finger touching off so the hole formed is around 1/8" bigger than the cue (the fingers will resemble how your close bridge fingers touch finger tip to side of finger) with the other fingers just pointing down not holding the cue. In this grip the thumb and middle finger are cross corner of each other and their touching together will "lock" the wrists side to side movement while still being completely free side to side.

Your losing accuracy b/c your fighting the bodys mechanics and can't keep the cue and hand in stoic positions.


The loser the grip the better the action and touch, but the loser it is the harder to control so you have to be very dedicated and have a very deliberate and smoothly, consistently accelerated stroke that is never jerky, and that always starts at 0 speed then begins to build.

hope that helps, please put up the pic so i can be sure what I said is actually applying to what you are talking about, if my comments don't apply after the photos i'll edit everything i said to properly reflect as such for the right answer.

-Grey Ghost

mincho & tim913...Only one grip is required to play pool (including the break), and that is a loose cradle. The real key is that the cradle should remain the same throughout the range of the stroke (backswing, and forward stroke should have identical cradle pressure). Let the cue do the work.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

mincho said:

I wish there were more comments.. any instructors want to chime in?

Click to expand...

tim913 said:

I have TWO grips when I play, yes TWO, I used to fight it, but play much
better now that I accept it, and just go with the flow. I have been to pool school with Jerry in Madison, WI, and Bob in Rockford, IL, and I've been playing for 47 years. My favorite grip is where I start out the textbook way, with thumb down, wrist straight, thumb, index finger, and middle finger gently cradling the cue. I then rotate my hand, from little finger side, away from the cue to where my knuckles form about a 45 degree angle from the cue. I have TOUCH with this grip, and move the CB around the table with little effort. This grip always works well for a while,and
then I lose my accuracy. I think my wrist is too loose, and I create too much squirt. I thought this sounded weird, until I heard Andy Segal talk about the same problem during his practice sessions. When this grip starts to fail me I switch to the more stable grip of wrist straight, using my thumb, two middle(middle and ring) fingers, and I do not rotate
wrist.This grip actually provides me the most accuracy, but with the wrist not being as loose, I lose my TOUCH. I feel like I'm pushing a big log around the table, and it takes a lot more effort to get the action I need from the CB. I don't know if any instructors out there have run into this, and if there is a name, cure, or something for it. I was told by one instructor that people who play golf, tennis, and other sports have different grips, so why fight it. If you're not an instructor please don't reply. I know, I've read all the humerous replies to other people with problems, but please save them for the shortstop forum...

Thanks

Click to expand...

One grip for all shots.....loose.

A grip does not cause "squirt".

randyg

tim913 said:

I have TWO grips when I play, yes TWO, I used to fight it, but play much
better now that I accept it, and just go with the flow. I have been to pool school with Jerry in Madison, WI, and Bob in Rockford, IL, and I've been playing for 47 years. My favorite grip is where I start out the textbook way, with thumb down, wrist straight, thumb, index finger, and middle finger gently cradling the cue. I then rotate my hand, from little finger side, away from the cue to where my knuckles form about a 45 degree angle from the cue. I have TOUCH with this grip, and move the CB around the table with little effort. This grip always works well for a while,and
then I lose my accuracy. I think my wrist is too loose, and I create too much squirt. I thought this sounded weird, until I heard Andy Segal talk about the same problem during his practice sessions. When this grip starts to fail me I switch to the more stable grip of wrist straight, using my thumb, two middle(middle and ring) fingers, and I do not rotate
wrist.This grip actually provides me the most accuracy, but with the wrist not being as loose, I lose my TOUCH. I feel like I'm pushing a big log around the table, and it takes a lot more effort to get the action I need from the CB. I don't know if any instructors out there have run into this, and if there is a name, cure, or something for it. I was told by one instructor that people who play golf, tennis, and other sports have different grips, so why fight it. If you're not an instructor please don't reply. I know, I've read all the humerous replies to other people with problems, but please save them for the shortstop forum...

Thanks

Click to expand...

Try the "Proshot" glove for $20.00..the 2 metal plates stop your wrist from bowing or twisting..works well.

I really think loose is the wrong term to describe the grip. The grip should be LIGHT, not loose. Loose implies there should be space between the grip and the cue. There shouldn't be any space between the cue and hand because that leads to a lack of control and accuracy.

Also a very import aspect is to maintain a consistent grip pressure before, during and after impact. Clinching the grip on impact causes mishits and unintended english. If you keep a light grip pressure throughout the stroke you will see delightfully crisp and accurate shot.

mnShooter said:

I really think loose is the wrong term to describe the grip. The grip should be LIGHT, not loose. Loose implies there should be space between the grip and the cue. There shouldn't be any space between the cue and hand because that leads to a lack of control and accuracy.

Also a very import aspect is to maintain a consistent grip pressure before, during and after impact. Clinching the grip on impact causes mishits and unintended english. If you keep a light grip pressure throughout the stroke you will see delightfully crisp and accurate shot.

Click to expand...

What do you think of the word "cradle"?
randyg

mnShooter...According to whom? I know a lot of older players who hold the cue with just their fingertips. These same people have run 100's of balls. So, if that's the case, why are they "doing it wrong"? The answer is, they aren't. Hold the cue any way you want to. The second part of your post is correct...same cradle pressure throughout the range of the stroke (backwards & forwards).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

mnShooter said:

I really think loose is the wrong term to describe the grip. The grip should be LIGHT, not loose. Loose implies there should be space between the grip and the cue. There shouldn't be any space between the cue and hand because that leads to a lack of control and accuracy.

Click to expand...

I've tried a loose grip and it has never worked for me, too much inaccuracy. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. A light grip works great for me.

I know a guy who can run hundreds and uses a super tight grip. So there are many different grips that work.

Can you explain the cradle grip? I'm guessing the cue rests in the fingers and doesn't touch the palm. Does the thumb touch the cue or the index finger?

Scott Lee said:

mnShooter...According to whom? I know a lot of older players who hold the cue with just their fingertips. These same people have run 100's of balls. So, if that's the case, why are they "doing it wrong"? The answer is, they aren't. Hold the cue any way you want to. The second part of your post is correct...same cradle pressure throughout the range of the stroke (backwards & forwards).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

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mnshooter,

it also depends (logically) on the physics of the player- if you watch Nils Feijen for example, a very sporty and strong guy playing- he holds the cue for sure VERY loose/light, also Mika Immonen does- Furthermore, if you re observing Souquet-also extremly loose grip. But all of them have different *hands*- some guys have a hand like a dartboard- some has very small hands like a little kiddie. What i want to say-they all will *touch* the cue different (index, thumb, both etc). That s for sure also a key creating *your perfect* stroke. Here a good instructor can help you for sure-to find out how to set up perfectly to transport your cue to the *target* (cb) in a straight line- here it is necessary to be very very accurate-and ligned up perfectly (distance grip hand, bridge-hand-cueball etc). Perhaps you already have had a super grip...but just your distance from grip to bridghand was wrong- or the distance from bridghand to cueball was not right.

You can t say, that just a loose or tight grip would fit your bad accouracy. There could be much more points to look for.

And from my side: A relaxed grip (cradle) is in my opinion the most successful.

The word "cradle" is used to describe the pressure...not holding the cue any particular way. The cradle should be relaxed, held with the front or back fingers (or fingertips, if you like), and remain the same throughout the range of the stroke (backwards and forwards). You may also hold the cue, as you described (with your palm touching the cue)...this is how I hold the cue, as well. All I'm saying, is hold it however you want to, but keep it loose and relaxed, and do it the same way for all shots. All good cradles are relaxed, even on the forward stroke.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

mnShooter said:

I've tried a loose grip and it has never worked for me, too much inaccuracy. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. A light grip works great for me.

I know a guy who can run hundreds and uses a super tight grip. So there are many different grips that work.

Can you explain the cradle grip? I'm guessing the cue rests in the fingers and doesn't touch the palm. Does the thumb touch the cue or the index finger?

Click to expand...

mnShooter said:

I've tried a loose grip and it has never worked for me, too much inaccuracy. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. A light grip works great for me.

I know a guy who can run hundreds and uses a super tight grip. So there are many different grips that work.

Can you explain the cradle grip? I'm guessing the cue rests in the fingers and doesn't touch the palm. Does the thumb touch the cue or the index finger?

Click to expand...

A

Try to always maintain an "A" cradle hand shape. The top of the A should point straight up your arm.
randyg

randyg said:

A

Try to always maintain an "A" cradle hand shape. The top of the A should point straight up your arm.
randyg

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Randy,

By the "A" grip do you mean have both the thumb and index finger pointing straight down?

Thanks,

Randy

Randy...No that's not what it means. Like I showed you, you can hold the cue any way you please...you just have train yourself not to clench the cue, when you strike the CB. Taking the index finger off the cue (pointing it straight down, at address) is one way to help learn how to quit gripping too tightly.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Randy9Ball said:

Randy,

By the "A" grip do you mean have both the thumb and index finger pointing straight down?

Thanks,

Randy

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I've run into issues where I hold the cue lightly, cradling if you will, and almost drop the frickin thing (has happened a couple times). I found that what help me the most thus far, was the diameter of the butt of the cue. I have big full hands and therefore feel like I'm doing too much work with a more narrow butt. I have to redesign how I grip the cue altogether when I'm shooting with a smaller butt taper.

I've actually been having problems implementing a light cradle to my stroke on all types of shots. I'd love to learn one comfortable grip to apply to them all, but afraid it'd take years for me to find it.

Any ideas?