Push/Pull-maybe both

duckie said:

FWIW

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not too much

Living Legend said:

not too much

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Keep it up.

Does anyone recall what I said about aiming threads?
If you want to be here, I suggest you research it.

My patience is at zero.

duckie said:

I wanted to reply to this thread but I do not consider myself a instructor, so I thought I'd do my reply here regard the pushing/pulling a car that is being used in the example.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=290432

Consider this-stand between two cars. You need to move both in one direction. The car in front of you is lighter than the car behind you. You will have to push the one in front and pull the one in the rear in order to move both in the same direction.

When changing direction, now the one that was pushed will be pulled and the one that was pulled now will be pushed.

In both cases, the heavy car will determine how easy you can move the cars together and not really where the heavy car is located in the chain. Also, notice that direction does not matter. You will need to pull and push to move the cars.

The total weight needing to be moved is the weight of both cars.

The total weight of the cue is what is being moved. Where the hand grips the cue and the distance from the grip to your bridge will determine how much weight is felt on either side of where you grip. The only way to feel the entire weight of a cue in one hand is with a one handed shot.

The grip hand will be pushing and pulling the weight of the cue at the same time when using two points for supporting the weight of the cue, the grip and a bridge.

Regardless of the direction of the cue, you will always being pushing/pulling at the same time when using two points of support for the weight of cue.

FWIW

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After reading that thread I'm totally sharked! :grin: I need to put it out of my mind, but before I do here's my take on it.

The human body works with opposing muscles and muscle groups. When one contracts, the other lengthens. It's a give/take relationship that develops power in a movement. Our stroke is a combination of push/pulls and no two are exactly alike.

We usually finesse our strokes and avoid too much muscle tension on the majority of shots. Most top pool players are not body builders, although a lifting program can be a benefit to your game.

I'm done, I'm out. I will never speak of this again. So don't ask me for a reply. I don't want the last word and this mind shark is packing and gone!

Best,
Mike

im thinking its no longer worth the hassle to post on this site and i will now take rather then give! is this post pool related or should i get my normal daily az warning for az hosepro or dave wilson?

fwiw i give up from being constantly harassed.

duckie said:

The real point of this was to show a better example regarding pushing or pulling using cars like in the other thread.

Instead of being in front or behind, I placed the person in the right position, ie grip hand, which is not behind nor in front of the weight of the cue.

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Once again, we have "QA Tester duckie" to the rescue of all of us from the perils of nit-pick word understanding.

Ok, I'll play! Assuming one grips the cue in the wrap area (where some point in the forearm of the cue is the 50% balance point of the cue -- therefore your hand is BEHIND the balance point), your contact with the cue -- and the lever used to propel it -- is BEHIND the majority of the weight of the cue. Therefore, the action of driving the cue forward is a "majority push" by any standard definition of the word "push". Yes, there's a slight "pull" action on that -- what, 20 or 30% weight left in the butt located behind the hand? But the majority of the effort is a push.

duckie said:

I know how joints work. I know how muscles work. One expanding while the other contracts.

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Greg:

Muscles do not expand -- they only contract. You just demonstrated that you do NOT KNOW how muscles work. Go do your homework on how muscles work.

duckie said:

This is why I do not believe in the use of the word pendulum in regards to the stroke. You can not bring your arm back and the let gravity take over in moving your hand. All hand movement is with muscle.

There was a example given by a qualified instructor where the he used a cue suspended from two strings to show what happen. The cue was pulled back and let go in this example. This can not be done in the real world of pool. Muscle is what is moving the cue not gravity.

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You are being "QA Tester duckie pedantic" once again. Of *course* most instructors know that there's a muscle component being used to drive the cue forward. They are not using the term "pendulum" to refer to gravity letting the cue "drop" forward and backward. They are using the term "pendulum" to refer to the ARC that the cue makes if the elbow is pinned, versus having that elbow bounce up and down as in a piston stroke. And they (the instructors) do this, QA Tester duckie, to demonstrate the simplicity of movement (i.e. only one arm component -- the forearm -- is being moved, vs. having to engage the whole arm and series of joints). But of course, when one has coke-bottle glasses on -- such as yourself -- you can't see the forest because you're too busy studying the bark on one tree.

duckie said:

This is one why I believe the tip is in contact longer than what has been commonly accepted.

If examples are to be used, they need to be better,they need to represent the real pool playing world better.

Some of you just need to get over yourself.

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And you need to get over YOURSELF, QA Tester duckie! It boggles the mind of most of us how, a self-admitted skill level "5" can come on these boards so authoritatively. What makes you think you are "so" qualified as to "teach us" when you don't have the credentials yourself?

-Sean

What does this have to do with aiming? Come on fellas we finally got our own forum let's not dilute it. ;-)

JB Cases said:

What does this have to do with aiming? Come on fellas we finally got our own forum let's not dilute it. ;-)

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You're exactly right, John. I apologize for responding to a misplaced thread. I have no idea why Greg wanted to continue the push/pull discussion (which was DEAD in my eyes, if you look at my response in that original thread he tried to continue) over in a forum whose topic/subject matter has nothing to do with it.

-Sean