How exactly does the Billiard Congress Of America support the professional player?

thewhiffer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has the Billiards Congress Of America become a detriment to the health of professional pool in the United States?

I ask this question as a result of reading a post to the string about some professional players retiring from pool.

JAM posted a comment that read in part;

The existing lot of American pro players is dwindling. In my opinion, this is the result of the abhorrent disregard by the Billiard Congress of America to the very players they are supposed to support and represent. Shame on the BCA organization for creating this mess. If they had been doing their job, professional pool would be alive and well. Industry members support industry members and look at pro players as if they're panhandlers or a gnat in their collective ears. Shame on them! Shame on them! Shame on them.

I asked JAM to expand on this comment with sound supporting argument. I also decided to see what the BCA web site had to offer. I found it interesting that their own web site seems to support some of what JAM had to say.

JAM’s response was;

The Billiard Congress of America is supposed to be the governmental organization for North American professional pool, which includes the United States.

The WPA is above them.

The WPA doesn't give a damn about industry members, yet the BCA seems to center their entire existence around its membership consisting of industry members.

The once-a-year BCA Open, which really wasn't an open since it was an invitational, with half of its player roster coming from abroad, outside of the BCA jurisdiction, folded like a lawn chair a few years ago. That was the little bone with not much meat on it that the BCA "gave" to professional pool. They decided that wasn't worth it anymore.

If the BCA wants to look out for its membership consisting of industry members, then they should relinquish their position representing North America. I say give it to Mark Griffin or some other entity that really does care about pool players. Industry members care about industry members getting fat while professional pool players go to two, three, and four tournaments a month and cannot ever break even.

The BCA with its fat industry members should have created a pro tour with funds coming from the fat industry members. If there were a pro tour, pool might have a chance in mainstream America on TV.

Instead, we have American dancing monkeys for pro players who sell their services like prostitutes to the highest bidder. The pool player ends up with a sliver of pie.

The industry members aka BCA in this regard have created the demise of professional pool with their shameful disregard to the players themselves. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.



From the BCA web site we get the following;

A brief history

The Billiard Congress of America (BCA) was established in 1948, with early involvement by players like Willie Mosconi and Willie Hoppe. The objective was to organize the players and promote the sport through qualifying tournaments at the local, regional and national levels in Straight Pool and 3-Cushion billiards (the popular competitive disciplines of the era) and recognize those champions. Organizers were also determined to produce an official rulebook to standardize the sport and help fund the effort; and to involve billiard rooms, retailers and manufacturers in meeting these promotional goals.

In 1982, the BCA board of directors decided to develop and host an industry trade show, at which all segments of the sport could meet. Today the BCA International Billiards & Home Recreation Expo is the largest billiard trade show in the world. Profits from the show, along with retail sales of "Billiards: The Official Rules & Records Book" generate substantial operating revenues, which allow the BCA to promote the sport at many different levels.

In 2004, the BCA re-dedicated itself to achieving a united, growing, prosperous and highly regarded billiard industry through BCA leadership. The BCA enhances the success of its members and promotes the game of billiards through educational programs, the International Billiard & Home Recreation Expo, tournaments and other programs designed to make pool everybody's game.



What started as an organization of professional players to organize themselves in a bid to promote the game with the involvement of billiard room operators, retailers and manufacturers appears to have been hijacked by these same entities which have turned this organization into something other than what the founding players had envisioned.

Players are now a fringe part of this organization started with players.


The July 12 2011 by laws confirm lack of player representation i.e.

Section 2.2

The objectives of the BCA shall be:
(1) To develop interest and participation throughout the United States in the sport of billiards and
to educate those connected with or desirous of becoming affiliated with the billiard industry.

(2) To collect and disseminate statistics and information of a general economic, social and
government character, analyze subjects relating thereto, and secure and present the view of the
members to other organizations, the government and the public.

(3) To conduct trade promotion activities, including advertising and publicity.

(4) To work with other organizations to improve all areas of the billiard industry.

(5) To engage in any lawful activity that will enhance the efficient and economic progress of the
industry and inform the public of its scope and character.

Article III: Membership

Section 3.1

There shall be four (4) categories of membership, each with its own privileges, voting rights and dues
structure.

Category 1 Manufacturer/Distributor – Licensed business entity with its principle business in the
manufacturing process or wholesale distribution of billiard equipment or accessories.
Billiard Media – Licensed business entity with its principle business in billiard media.
However, Billiard Media members are not entitled to hold a Board of Directors position.

Category 2 Retailer – Licensed business entity with its principle business in the selling of billiard
equipment or billiard accessories from an established, publicly known place of business.
BCA Bylaws – Approved July 12, 2011 Page 2 of 1010


Category 3 Room Operator
1. Licensed business with its principle business operating one or more establishments
where billiards are played, and
2. Licensed business with its principle business operating a billiards league or league
system.


Category 4 Affiliate – All others in four subgroups:

1. Associations, organizations, billiard media and other licensed entities actively
engaged in the billiard industry,

2. Licensed entities not engaged in the billiard industry,

3. Professional Billiard players (individuals) that earn their living from playing billiards,
giving exhibitions of billiards, or otherwise promoting the sport, and

4. Any other person or entity that the board of directors deems appropriate for
membership in the organization





TO HIGHLIGHT: Players are now relegated to the “all others” in a sub group with no right to vote on any matter before the BCA as per.....

Section 3.3

Member entities in Category 4 do not have voting privileges and their personnel are not eligible for appointment or election.


To re-iterate, only cat 1, 2, 3 can serve as officer or director.


Category 4 has a $200 per year membership. Note that the VNEA, BCA leagues and the APA would appear to be category 4 members so again the associations that represent actual players have no vote.


What does the Billiard Congress of America actually do for the professional pool player?


Well for one, they have a travel fund to support those who they sanction to go to World Pool & Billiard Association (WPA) events and they indicate that the Billiard Congress of America is committed to the growth and advancement of North American professional pool players. Nice words until you read on;


The North American professional pool player travel fund was established to assist North America's best professional pool players' travel expenses when they compete at WPA sanctioned world championships. To support the professional player travel fund, 50% of all revenue sales from the Official Billiard Rules Mobile Application will go directly in to the travel fund. Once the Billiard Congress of America determines it can adequately invest in North American professional pool player travel for a complete year, we will launch and announce the effort and the fund's parameters to all professional billiard players in North America.

The Billiard Congress of America would like the fund to work as a "zero-risk loan” to players who agree to pay back the funds if they earn more than 50% of the loan money at the WPA event. As the fund grows, the Billiard Congress of America will work on the specifics in order to provide more travel stipends to North America's best professional pool and billiard players.



If I read this right a player can (if 50% of the revenue from selling the Official Billiard Rules Mobile Application is enough to invest in player travel for the full year) borrow travel money to attend events and they agree to pay back 100% of the loan if they win prize money equal to 50% of the loan.


By this point I reached my own conclusions about the Billiard Congress of America and was left wondering if this organization was still valid or had the original intent been hijacked by self interest at the expense of the players holding the players hostage to their will by using their power as a sanctioning body to keep them in line.

I would love to hear some clear examples of what they have done to support pool in general and the professional player in specifics. As always, I wonder where the money goes. This is a non profit entity.

I will leave it at that, thanking JAM for her input and anyone wishing to give specific examples of a benefit given to pool in general or to specific professional players.
 

jhanso18

Broken Lock
Silver Member
What is the difference between BCA and CSI? Seriously curious, not being a smart ass.

From my view the basically seem to be the same entity with BCA being a product of CSI? I'm pry way off, but I should know this one.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
The BCA is a trade organization.

They are supposed to be the governing body of American Billiards but have basically relinquished that task to the WPA when the WPA was formed.

It would be in the best interest of all of us that play the game if the cue ball had tight tolerances & was very nearly the same. But... that would not be & is not in the best interests of the the manufacturers as that would cut into profits by increasing the overhead because those balls that do not meet such a tight tolerance would have to be discarded or recycled.

The BCA is a trade organization & it's purpose is to foster those in the trade to help them make more money as that is the purpose of 'trade'.

I could say more regarding an offshoot but that is certainly not the topic of this thread.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What is the difference between BCA and CSI? Seriously curious, not being a smart ass.

From my view the basically seem to be the same entity with BCA being a product of CSI? I'm pry way off, but I should know this one.

I know Mark posts here and he's the boss of CSI so would be the best to anwer, but I think CSI has the rights to use the BCA name for pool leagues. They also put on and promote tournaments, but I do not think the BCA is not involved in that. I don't think BCA and CSI are joined outside of working with each other for cross marketing.

CSI is a good version of Dragon Promotions from what I can tell. CSI works to move the pool world forward, Dragon Promo works to put their stable of players forward.
 

Banks

Banned
Shouldn't this record be broken by now?

cwdp.jpg

I'm sure it couldn't be any less than they've done for themselves.
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
Can anyone name a trade organization that works for the benefit of its individual members?

ASCAP? (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers) Certainly not. It strong-arms your local pool hall into paying royalties if they play music...then they give the money to 1) themselves and 2) the publishers of the Top 40. Your pool hall might play all indie music, but the independent musicians never see a penny from ASCAP.

AMA (American Medical Association) If you're having surgery, don't ask your doctor about the AMA right before surgery; you don't want him foaming at the mouth from anger during your operation.

Entertainment trade groups work to promote the genre of entertainment (sports, music, dance, etc). If the pros in the genre benefit from that, fine. If not, that's their own fault (according to the trade groups). For public relations purposes (only) they'll set up things like a scholarship fund, a healthcare buying co-op, a Hall of Fame, etc. but none of the pros ever benefit from them.

Bottom line: if you're looking for a trade organization to benefit individual members, you're barking up the wrong tree.
 

thewhiffer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What is the difference between BCA and CSI? Seriously curious, not being a smart ass.

From my view the basically seem to be the same entity with BCA being a product of CSI? I'm pry way off, but I should know this one.

Some years ago, shortly after I started to take this game seriously, I became aware of an organization called the Billiard Congress of America, BCA, which sanctioned a major pool tournament in Canada. To be eligible to play in that tournament, but not play in a BCA league system, I paid a $25.00 annual fee to be a member. I received a nice package including rule book and decals. Soon after something changed and there was some kind of reorganization.

In Canada that tournament is now run by Canadian Cue Sports (ccs) and the BCA leagues have all but disappeared. In the US I think they split into separate entities. BCA as amateur pool leagues are run very well by Mark Griffin, along with other entities like CSI, and show support for the professional game through combining amateur events with major professional events. The Billiard Congress of America appears to have become a trade organization that does not seem to do a lot for professional pool. In light of the various points made by others and by what I can glean from their own website I am curious to understand just what they do.
 

Mr. Bond

Orbis Non Sufficit
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ironically, I was just speaking to a significant BCA board member just a few days ago about this very subject. (we were texting actually) Many of the questions raised here, were the same as my questions....

At one point I said:

"...I was under the impression that the BCA wanted to represent the "industry" only, so to speak...but not things like pro players, tournaments, promoters etc..."

He said:
"..common misconception and it depends on who you talk to. The BCA mission is to work on both sides for the benefit of all. Hell, I wouldnt be [on the board ] if it was "trade only"

" ..Ok, so here's a dumb question: is the BCA a "pro player association" like unto the women's association? "

" Yes, We changed the bylaws a few years ago to allow it "

....more conversation....

"..does the BCA currently have a "group" of pro players out there functioning as one? "

" Not as such..." ....then some commentary on the ABP.


My last question was whether or not (he felt that) the BCA should do some pro-active marketing to straighten out these "misconceptions" and perhaps make it known that the BCA is allegedly willing to represent the pro players moreso than is currently being done...

...to which we both agreed that it would be far better to discuss it in person (rather than by text), so I have a phone call coming up in which I plan to find out the rest of the answers. I may even record it interview style, so keep your eyes peeled for further info.
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
Think it went something like this. The BCA had a pool league it created to get more amateur players involved in the game. BCA was primarily a trade organization. The APA was a member of the BCA and asked the BCA to rid itself of a direct competitor. The BCA offered the leagues up for sale. They were purchased along with the right to use the BCA name for the pool league (BCAPL) by Mark Griffin. The previous BCA pool league operations manager was John Lewis. After leaving the BCA pool leagues, he and other BCA pool league employees formed the ACS (American Cue Sports alliance). As the confusion continues regarding the BCA and the BCAPL, Mark Griffin created an umbrella organization CSI (Cue Sports International) to run all his pool related operations. As hang-the-9 stated, Mark posts here so I expect to hear from him soon. Hope I wasn't too far off :eek: .

Lyn
 

billy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe that CSI bought the BCA leagues.

'I could be wrong'

no, you are correct

Mark is a significant business guy. he understands the need to satisfy customers and players first. then maybe finds a bone or two himself, or maybe not at all. After all this guy has done it's clear pool needs more like him

the others seem to hold the 'what's in it for me' syndrome all too often. pool is at a point right now where we can not demand a fair (or unfair) share of anything. we have to earn it first, make some sacrifices, and we haven't even scratched the surface. we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot, yes we do

pool, snooker, billiards are pure, highly skilled, and beautiful games. they are made for TV. needs a grand effort from the unexpected though to maybe attract a major sports programmer one of these fine days. efforts sorta like CSI are a start

just a quick opinion :smile:
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Angst

From what I can gather from these posts, comments of others I talk to associate with there is a lot of Angst in pool. I can certainly understand that professional players are concerned with being able to make a living playing pool.

I would like to win the lottery but the chances of it happening aren't real good so I work a job. A lot of pro players get involved in running tournaments or other aspects of pool. Its just a statement of where things are with the sport as a whole.

The pool league system be it APA, BCA, CSI, TAP or whatever it is has done one thing right. They continue to produce new players for their teams. That sells a lot of goods on the retail and wholesale markets. They participate in the system.

So if Pool owes a debt of gratitude to anyone its the Pool League System, it keeps players coming. Some of these people end up playing Regional Tours and make accomplished players. If they play pool and practice then they are supporting the rooms that make it possible.

If you pay attention to who is providing the support to Professional Pool you will find that corporate interest is waning. Ask yourself why?

If I held the purse strings to a large sum of cash to produce "Added Money" to a Pro Tournament I would look for something in return and I can't see that any of it is happening.

If it were we would hear about Pro Players going into bars and playing all comers and people swarming in to play and have pictures taken with them. Action would be promoted at the level where eyeballs start to mean something. I cant imagine that any pro player should go hungry. The Room Owners and Fans would take care of helping the players. So maybe if there were some good will on the part of Pro Players to provide their fans something for the fact that we look up to them Corporate Interest would recognize that "People" idolize the players and there would be power in sponsoring Professional Events. They would know that if players promoted their brands that people would listen.

I guess that it would be possible that the sponsors are there, have been there and still are there because the sponsors ultimately are created by the Pool League Systems in the form of New Players.

I cant imagine if I were a Pro Player that I would have a hard time making some money to get to the next tournament when normal everyday players look up to them like they are Gods. So what is the problem. You tell me.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The one thing we can all agree on in pool. The organizations sure love three letter acronyms.

APA, BCA, CSI, WPA, IPT, PBT, ABT, UPT, ABC (Tuckers new league thing), TAP. Any others I missed?
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The one thing we can all agree on in pool. The organizations sure love three letter acronyms.

APA, BCA, CSI, WPA, IPT, PBT, ABT, UPT, ABC (Tuckers new league thing), TAP. Any others I missed?

usapl, napa. :grin-square:
 

Pre-Flag Master

Cue Ball Man
Silver Member
Think it went something like this. The BCA had a pool league it created to get more amateur players involved in the game. BCA was primarily a trade organization. The APA was a member of the BCA and asked the BCA to rid itself of a direct competitor. The BCA offered the leagues up for sale. They were purchased along with the right to use the BCA name for the pool league (BCAPL) by Mark Griffin. The previous BCA pool league operations manager was John Lewis. After leaving the BCA pool leagues, he and other BCA pool league employees formed the ACS (American Cue Sports alliance). As the confusion continues regarding the BCA and the BCAPL, Mark Griffin created an umbrella organization CSI (Cue Sports International) to run all his pool related operations. As hang-the-9 stated, Mark posts here so I expect to hear from him soon. Hope I wasn't too far off :eek: .

Lyn

I assume the gist of the above is right.

But I don't think Griffin actually purchased the rights to use the BCA *name*. I think that part went more like this...

Griffen purchased the league. As part of the agreement, Griffen was not allowed to use the name "Billiard Congress of America". But nobody said he couldn't use "BCA"... so he did. Then the BCA sued him, but lost the suit. So Griffen was allowed to continue to use "BCA". But in his world, these three letters don't mean "Billiard Congress of America". They are just three letters... BCA, no acronym, no meaning, just BCA.

Hence the acronym BCAPL can not mean "Billiard Congress of America Pool League" it can only mean "BCA Pool League".

I don't know why he had to have those three letters. Well, I presume it was for marketing purposes, but I don't know that for a fact.

Now, just to be clear, I am not 100% certain that's how it went down. But I am 100% certain that if any of the "facts" are wrong, I will be corrected soon enough.

Fatz
 

Pre-Flag Master

Cue Ball Man
Silver Member
As for the actual topic of this thread, wouldn't it benefit the BCA members if pool were to grow in popularity in the US? Wouldn't a successful pro pool tour help to increase the popularity of pool? Pro pool needs to be televised with high production standards, such as what Matchroom does. These broadcasts also need to have some standard, frequently repeated informational video clips such as...

1. A mini pool history and explanation of cue ball control (many people don't actually understand that there is such a thing. Once they get that, they become fascinated).

2. Some basic instructional material (fundamentals, ghost ball, tangent line, key balls, insurance balls)

3. An explanation of the difference between gambling and hustling - trying to clean up the image of pool.

Of course I only *think* these things would help. Further, thinking the BCA might actually do anything along these lines is "mere optimism".

Fatz
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Development of Pool

As for the actual topic of this thread, wouldn't it benefit the BCA members if pool were to grow in popularity in the US? Wouldn't a successful pro pool tour help to increase the popularity of pool? Pro pool needs to be televised with high production standards, such as what Matchroom does. These broadcasts also need to have some standard, frequently repeated informational video clips such as...

1. A mini pool history and explanation of cue ball control (many people don't actually understand that there is such a thing. Once they get that, they become fascinated).

2. Some basic instructional material (fundamentals, ghost ball, tangent line, key balls, insurance balls)

3. An explanation of the difference between gambling and hustling - trying to clean up the image of pool.

Of course I only *think* these things would help. Further, thinking the BCA might actually do anything along these lines is "mere optimism".

Fatz

Fatz,
I think a lot of people including myself were under the impression the Billiard Congress of America were there to do much more than they have done. I grew up with the assumption that BCA leagues were the top of the line and the greatest thing since sliced bread and were the precursor to Professional Pool. Everyone else fell somewhere behind that. The pool league part of that situation was the representation of themselves to the Pool Populace and I would guess that through that they had a bunch of members that they likely don't have now.

Why in the name of any God would they sell it to become Administrators? Im sorry but if you have something that is working why monk around with it? That is exactly what they did they sold it and I think it was the biggest mistake they ever made. It took everything from them for a short term gain. Now the trade show isn't doing great from what I hear.

So when I hear people complaining about the BCA....and rightfully so because they are the body of pool that we all have been groomed to look up to I think about all this. Those folks pulled a really dumb move and its cost them the admiration of a lot of people and professional players.

I cant imagine that once the money was gone from the Pool Leagues that they had a lot of money to do anything for anyone with.= Shot themselves in the foot

So if the trade show business isn't doing fantastic and there are less regular members and no clear Revenue Stream how are they going to do anything for anyone?

Pool is a very large slow moving body that operates off a collective consciousness or consensus and if it doesn't put dollars into someone pocket then it doesn't work and therefore doesn't last.

This move to sell the Pool Leagues just wasn't a great idea in my line of thinking because who are they now to the Regular Joe and the Professional Player?

I don't believe they have a lot of cash to do much with and I really don't see that they have much to offer the Industry Members.

I think we are seeing the beginning of a great turn in pool and anyone who wants to fulfill the function of what we all thought the job was of the Billiard Congress of America certainly could be, of course you might have to call yourself something else and that wouldn't be hard to do. You see in this business they love acronyms and I think we have a few combinations left.....imaginations run wild!!! How about Billiards Gone Wild? BGW. Now that's something Id love to be a member of....whoo hoo! I would dare say that you wouldn't need a suit and a tie!

I do however agree with your assessment of the advertising of Billiards, the explanation, etc. There isn't anyone coming up with anything that tells the General Public about pool. That is quite a challenge and finding someone who can fund that and having something like that actually give back a return to them that will make a difference in their bottom line as well as pool is going to be quite a balancing act.

I would dare say this is going to be an area of opportunity for someone.
 

APA BRIAN

APA BRIAN
Silver Member
BCA,,, yes. I also put Tweeten Fibre on the list of those who could but don't do anything for professional pool.
 
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