A solution - some middle ground.

great post i couldn't agree more!

The sad truth, Craig, is that (imo) KT has no interest in building out a real tour. He thought he found a whole new ocean of fish, and came up with the $2k qualifier pyramid scheme.

Now that he sees we're not as dumb as he thought, or as plentiful as he thought, he's lost interest. He is looking to get out now as cheaply as possible, without being sued.

I don't think there will be another tournament... it's not in his interest. High-class events were a by-product of the scam; he needed them to keep up the house of cards. Now that everyone knows what's going on, he has no interest in putting on million-dollar tournaments for the "love of the game".

His interest was to fleece - and that gig is mercifully up.

I pray no one is continuing to put his or her life on hold for this mess. Life is too short.

- Steve

When Are You Guys Gonna Learn?

You are talking about the most dishonest person on the planet. There is a special place in hell for people who needlesly ruin other peoples lives. This man is the scum of the earth and you still want to lay down with him. I tried to tell you guys before, you lay down with dogs, you gonna get fleas! If you are stupid enough to believe anything this crook has to say, you deserve what you get. Do yourself a favor guys, deal with honest, decent good people. Do not buy stolen goods because you are only supporting thieves. You will be next. When you gonna learn? It should be the right way or no way.
Purdman

PS: Pool doesn't need KT or any Natural Cures. I would personally like to meet KT and beat the living CHIT out of him for all of ya and the many people he has stolen and scamed in the past. What about it KT, you want a piece of an old 57 year old man?

8-ball bernie said:

great post i couldn't agree more!

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bernie, I am beginning to believe there is no hope for you!
Purdman

TheOne said:

We all want to believe and hope, but the players are in a real pickle, spend thousands on solicitors and sue or TRUST KT(!) and possibly get burned. KT is asking the players to trust him again BUT he has lied to them countless times. There is of course 1 way to call his bluff and give him the time he needs, this is the solution I'd like to see....

A cast iron contract is drawn up (by the new union, Randy or whoever) that KT signs promising to pay all the players the money from Reno PLUS the 13k minimum guarantee no matter what happens with the IPT (out of his own pocket if necessary).

In addition a guarantee to pay back ALL the people who played in the qualifiers their entry money if the tour collapses or he does not honor is 100k promise next year.

The time for trusting is gone, lets get these promises in writing and get KT to back up his words by putting his alleged personal wealth on the line. People changed their lives for this tour mainly on the back of KT's personal guarantee that the first 2 years money was in escrow - this was a BIG FAT LIE.

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Why would KT do that? What's in it for him? Every negotiation has to have both parties bringing something to the table the other wants. The players have nothing KT wants. You have to just go back the day one when he said something to the effect, and I am paraphrasing I don't feel like looking it up, "If the top players don't want to play then I will have Joe Blow winning a million dollars on TV".

The players never had a ounce of power from the beginning and never will dealing with KT. He is still dictating how and when, if at all, he will pay them even though it is all after the fact and there is no mystery what he owes. He makes the rules and changes them as it suits him. It will never be any different dealing with him and the players better get that through their heads. They are not bullying him into anything. The players need him out of their lives regardless what carrots he keeps dangling. They are still chasing the promise of future tournaments and $100,000 a year guarantees. No one should be so desperate as to want a person like Kevin Trudeau in their lives. They almost seem to be exhibiting symptoms of like a "battered wife syndrome" with him.

The landscape keeps changing so quickly I am beginning to wonder what will happen. I tend to believe they will get paid the 1/3 they were offered and not much else and the future of the IPT as far as the 150 player stable system and any other commitments to that is most certainly over.

Maybe a few OPEN tournaments in the future to replenish the video library who knows. One thing I do know, what even happens it will be Kevin Trudeau that is calling the shots.

Chapter one of the IPT comes to a close with the players waiting for the next installment on the "guaranteed" prie money. What will chapter two bring?

By the way, if someone like Trudeau is evil for messing with people's lives, and players shouldn't want to have someone like that in their lives, why are we letting him in our lives so much? What does it say about us that we spend so much time talking about this man?

I am going to take a break from this. It apears as though things are well in hand and my opinion is no longer needed to maintain the balance. )

TheOne said:

We all want to believe and hope, but the players are in a real pickle, spend thousands on solicitors and sue or TRUST KT(!) and possibly get burned. KT is asking the players to trust him again BUT he has lied to them countless times. There is of course 1 way to call his bluff and give him the time he needs, this is the solution I'd like to see....

A cast iron contract is drawn up (by the new union, Randy or whoever) that KT signs promising to pay all the players the money from Reno PLUS the 13k minimum guarantee no matter what happens with the IPT (out of his own pocket if necessary).

In addition a guarantee to pay back ALL the people who played in the qualifiers their entry money if the tour collapses or he does not honor is 100k promise next year.

The time for trusting is gone, lets get these promises in writing and get KT to back up his words by putting his alleged personal wealth on the line. People changed their lives for this tour mainly on the back of KT's personal guarantee that the first 2 years money was in escrow - this was a BIG FAT LIE.

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This is a great idea Craig, but in order for something like this to ever happen somebody has to step up on behalf of the players and take charge. I also doubt KT would sign such a contract, why would he risk his own butt if he doesn't have to?

TheOne said:

We all want to believe and hope, but the players are in a real pickle, spend thousands on solicitors and sue or TRUST KT(!) and possibly get burned. KT is asking the players to trust him again BUT he has lied to them countless times. There is of course 1 way to call his bluff and give him the time he needs, this is the solution I'd like to see....

A cast iron contract is drawn up (by the new union, Randy or whoever) that KT signs promising to pay all the players the money from Reno PLUS the 13k minimum guarantee no matter what happens with the IPT (out of his own pocket if necessary).

In addition a guarantee to pay back ALL the people who played in the qualifiers their entry money if the tour collapses or he does not honor is 100k promise next year.

The time for trusting is gone, lets get these promises in writing and get KT to back up his words by putting his alleged personal wealth on the line. People changed their lives for this tour mainly on the back of KT's personal guarantee that the first 2 years money was in escrow - this was a BIG FAT LIE.

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Sorta reminds me of the pool hustler who tells his mark, "Ok, I'll give you a chance to get even...."

Fill in whatever ending that comes to mind. There are a bunch.

Jake

TheOne said:

We all want to believe and hope, but the players are in a real pickle, spend thousands on solicitors and sue or TRUST KT(!) and possibly get burned. KT is asking the players to trust him again BUT he has lied to them countless times. There is of course 1 way to call his bluff and give him the time he needs, this is the solution I'd like to see....

A cast iron contract is drawn up (by the new union, Randy or whoever) that KT signs promising to pay all the players the money from Reno PLUS the 13k minimum guarantee no matter what happens with the IPT (out of his own pocket if necessary).

In addition a guarantee to pay back ALL the people who played in the qualifiers their entry money if the tour collapses or he does not honor is 100k promise next year.

The time for trusting is gone, lets get these promises in writing and get KT to back up his words by putting his alleged personal wealth on the line. People changed their lives for this tour mainly on the back of KT's personal guarantee that the first 2 years money was in escrow - this was a BIG FAT LIE.

Click to expand...

In what sense is this the middle ground? This reads like a proposal for KT to sign on the dotted line for a complete and total victory for the players. Like you, I wish he would do just that, but if he were willing to sign that, he'd be paying them now. I'm hoping for the best.

One Solution ??

TheOne said:

this is the solution I'd like to see....

A cast iron contract is drawn up (by the new union, Randy or whoever) that KT signs promising to pay all the players the money from Reno PLUS the 13k minimum guarantee no matter what happens with the IPT (out of his own pocket if necessary).

In addition a guarantee to pay back ALL the people who played in the qualifiers their entry money if the tour collapses or he does not honor is 100k promise next year. ].

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WAT R U SMOKIN ?

TheOne said:

I think you missed my point SJM, the point is if players are having doubts about going legal *just in case* all his spin is true then this would be an ideal way to make their minds up. They have a choice a) sue b) trust, this takes out all the need trust. Dreams die hard and I sense many players neither have the funds nor the heart to spend years fighting a legal battle for what is owed them, many still beleive his BS.

Actually if I've learnt anything from my own ongoing 3+ year legal case its this: rule number 1: always give the other side the chance to do the right thing before going legal or escalating the case. I don't doubt for a minute the first step of any legal action will be a letter to Mr T giving him x days to pay up in full.

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Thanks for clarifying, Craig. I misinterpreted you, for which I apologize.

TheOne said:

Yep its best with the masses but personally this is what I would do. All they need to do is pay for an hour or two of a solicitors time to draft a letter. All it has to say is:

- The players are united.
- We want a binding contract that the IPT will honour its commitments.
- If the IPT does the players and probably the industry as a whole will give them time (within reason) to do whatever is neccessary to keep the IPT going.
- You have 7 days to reply to this letter.

No agreement you have your answer, SUE!

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I like your idea!

Just to re-discuss KT's recruitment of IPT players.

1-Forced players to leave their current tours

2-Scheduled events at the same time of other tours

3-How many players did he personally glad hand beside MS?

4-KT issues statements via email none of which are on the IPT site

5-IPT site converts from qualifier ads to DVD sale ads

MY question is why aren't any of KT's statements about financing the tour on the website. This bump in the road showed current tours problems that arise from larger pots and new levels of management. All at KTs expense and the players.

If Natural Cures is the only sponsor of the IPT that is a way for him to launder his cash. He can have 100 joe nameless enter unverified tournaments. Then collect as the IPT profiter.

That paper shredder of his was awfully busy the past week or two.

In regards to KT's management skills he is closed minded and a push over.

Just to re-discuss KT's recruitment of IPT players.

1-Forced players to leave their current tours

This is not the case. No player was forced to compete on the IPT. Many chose not to submit applications when they were asked for.

2-Scheduled events at the same time of other tours.

Whether this was deliberate or not, it happens all the time anyway with tours and tournaments around the world. Players are free to choose which tournaments they will attend.

3-How many players did he personally glad hand beside MS?

What is "glad hand"?

4-KT issues statements via email none of which are on the IPT site.

None of the PGA missives to it's players are on their website either, I wouldn't have a website full of internal business open to the public. The fact that Trudeau did this at all speaks more to his ineptitude and arrogance than his business sense. The PGA isn't full of a bunch of statement selling everyone on how "great" they are compared to other sports, or how much better they are than other golf tours (are there any otther golf tours?)

5-IPT site converts from qualifier ads to DVD sale ads

What does this have to do with recruiting the players and who cares? If the focus is on selling DVDs and memberships rather than plugging qualifiers then that is certainly not a problem. As well, it probably make more sense to push these items rather than $2000 entry qualifiers. At least the IPT actually has an library of matches to sell.

MY question is why aren't any of KT's statements about financing the tour on the website. This bump in the road showed current tours problems that arise from larger pots and new levels of management. All at KTs expense and the players.

Again it was stupid of him to have them up in the first place. The reason was to satisfy his ego and sell everyone on how great he is. This bump in the road appears to be more of a roadblock right now.

If Natural Cures is the only sponsor of the IPT that is a way for him to launder his cash. He can have 100 joe nameless enter unverified tournaments. Then collect as the IPT profiter.

It seems quite an expensive way to "launder" cash. Natural Cues makes money legitimately, by selling products and services. There is no need to launder cash from this business. If Natural Cures revenue did bankroll the IPT however then it seems more a prefect way to squander cash. If the IPT were simply a way to mave cash from one entity to another then it's a pretty easy link to draw for any RICO attorneys especially given that Trudeau has made it perfectly clear who owns the IPT.

That paper shredder of his was awfully busy the past week or two.

Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't.

In regards to KT's management skills he is closed minded and a push over.

Perhaps he is close minded. He doesn't seem to be too much of a push-over however. He seems to be the kind of entrepeneur who likes to take the ball and run with it without checking out the landscape very well before he takes off. But that is only the observation from someone on the way outer fringes looking in.

Roadie provides some insightful arguments based on the details cited in my post.

Glad Hand is a meet and greet.