Short backswing, long follow through?

Hooper840 said:

I was watching Alex play, and noticed he had a very short backswing, regardless of his bridge length. He follows through, what I would consider, further than average. For a guy like me, who sometimes has trouble moving the ball around, would I, in theory, have more luck this way?

I would think it would make my tip placement more accurate, but has anyone tried this? I won't be able to get on the table until next week. Just curious what you guys think.

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Yes, it makes your tip placement more accurate. Which in turn, means your stroke is more accurate. It's something I have often recommended on here.

Hooper840 said:

Cool, that's what I was thinking too. I'm excited to try it out. Are there any possible drawbacks to this? Would it work on moderate distance draw shots?

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Yes, the drawback is you have to practice this technique! I did this on a recommendation from one of personal favorite players(he's a pro).

If you don't put the time in to practice this "New" technique, you will not fully understand the benefits. It took me a good 2 weeks to get familiar with it and another 2 weeks to get my game where it "was" before I started!

In a few weeks, I noticed a DRAMATIC increase in my cueball control!

When you learn to hit the cueball with accuracy, you will learn(like I did) that certain shots that were 80% makes turn into 95% or better!

BUT REMEMBER,,,,, you have to learn to adapt this new style and kinda relearn certain things! If you practice the RIGHT WAY, you will find out what I'm saying and will have that, "ohhhh, that's what that weird dude that nobody likes on AZ meant" (especially the mods)

Eli

Hooper840 said:

I was watching Alex play, and noticed he had a very short backswing, regardless of his bridge length. He follows through, what I would consider, further than average. For a guy like me, who sometimes has trouble moving the ball around, would I, in theory, have more luck this way?

I would think it would make my tip placement more accurate, but has anyone tried this? I won't be able to get on the table until next week. Just curious what you guys think.

Click to expand...

if you follow thru well you should have no problem
this link was posted in my poke vs stroke thread thanks LAMas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Fi7dpjqUg
if you watch allen's follow thru its much longer than his take back
he did pretty well doing it that way..:grin-square:

Hooper840 said:

Cool, that's what I was thinking too. I'm excited to try it out. Are there any possible drawbacks to this? Would it work on moderate distance draw shots?

Click to expand...

Yes, there are drawbacks! If you don't have the fast twitch muscles needed, you risk doing all sorts of bad moves to get power and throw off your shots! The thing with a long backswing that some neglect to mention, is that it allows a slow, controlled start to the forward swing, which will help you keep the cue on line (as long as you stay still). When someone takes too short of a backswing (for them) they tend to tense up and jerk their stroke. What happens from that is that the cue will dip/rise or go left or right of intended contact point.Watch beginners (try to) hit big draws to get the idea, they either scoop or don't get draw at all. With a long backswing, the power will come without, effort, twisting or anything like that, just the length of the backswing and momentum building through the stroke. You can keep the intended cueball contact point, because you don't have to jerk the stroke or twist your body to get more force.

You can still have a short backswing on the short shots, but have power in reserve for the hard shots. And the good part is that the shots will feel the same, only the backswing will change. The accelleration etc will be exactly the same, only longer for the harder shots.

Watch this shot to see the beauty of it:
https://youtu.be/73Vd6SnP7A8?t=49

Hooper840 said:

I was watching Alex play, and noticed he had a very short backswing, regardless of his bridge length. He follows through, what I would consider, further than average. For a guy like me, who sometimes has trouble moving the ball around, would I, in theory, have more luck this way?

I would think it would make my tip placement more accurate, but has anyone tried this? I won't be able to get on the table until next week. Just curious what you guys think.

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FWIW..My advice would be to seek your own comfort level..For instance, I myself, could never become comfortable with Alex's long bridge, or Hopkins extremely short one!..While both are top shelf players, they may be even better with more normal mechanics....Also, I have noticed, they both seem to struggle considerably to get back in stroke, when they are having an off day!

There are many more great players, who use normally accepted mechanics, than those who go to extremes..I would suggest starting out with what is considered average, as most good instructors will advise..Then build on what feels right for you!
..Thats why Baskin-Robbins has 31 flovors..We all seem to have different preferences!

Regardless of bridge length, it's called a punch stroke. I am more accurate with one.

Neil said:

Yes, it makes your tip placement more accurate. Which in turn, means your stroke is more accurate. It's something I have often recommended on here.

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Neil, please explain what you mean here..I am not following your line of reasoning at all..How can an exaggerated bridge length, (like Alex favors) possibly increase 'stroke accuracy'?..Only someone with his exceptional skill, could overcome this obvious shortcoming in his mechanics!

PS..The further away you are from your target, the more chances exist for an error!..That is an undeniable law of physics!

joe76195 said:

Regardless of bridge length, it's called a punch stroke. I am more accurate with one.

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I would describe Hopkins style as more of a 'punch stroke'..Not Alex's..However, both usually make good, accurate contact..But regardless, whatever works for you, go for it!

Hooper840 said:

I was asking a question in reference to the back stroke being shorter, regardless of bridge length. Neil said that a shorter back stroke (bridge length not making a difference) makes your overall stroke more accurate.

The comparison being, long backstroke and long follow through vs. short backstroke and long follow through.

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That may be somewhat true, Hooper..But what I'm saying is, you cannot just ignore the length of the bridge, as it will always increase your margin for error, when striking the cue ball..And that is regardless of your length of backstroke, or follow thru!

short backstroke allows less distance and time to go off straight
thus more accurate

What about high speed shots though?

Hooper840 said:

I was watching Alex play, and noticed he had a very short backswing, regardless of his bridge length. He follows through, what I would consider, further than average. For a guy like me, who sometimes has trouble moving the ball around, would I, in theory, have more luck this way?

I would think it would make my tip placement more accurate, but has anyone tried this? I won't be able to get on the table until next week. Just curious what you guys think.

Click to expand...

Yes Sir, I have tried and continue to do this. I use this for long shots and shots that I feel I need the added assurance of extra accuracy. This is what it means to me... removing some potential for error when using a shortened back swing. The long follow through is just good FORM so that you are relaxed and uniform in your deliver of energy to the CB.

I do this in an exaggerated manner on shots where I am jacked up over a ball as well. Sure, I know, "how can you have a long follow through when you are shooting into the table?" Just stroke straight into the table like its not even there. Make a noise.

Regards,

Lesh

Straightpool_99 said:

Yes, there are drawbacks! If you don't have the fast twitch muscles needed, you risk doing all sorts of bad moves to get power and throw off your shots! The thing with a long backswing that some neglect to mention, is that it allows a slow, controlled start to the forward swing, which will help you keep the cue on line (as long as you stay still). When someone takes too short of a backswing (for them) they tend to tense up and jerk their stroke. What happens from that is that the cue will dip/rise or go left or right of intended contact point.Watch beginners (try to) hit big draws to get the idea, they either scoop or don't get draw at all. With a long backswing, the power will come without, effort, twisting or anything like that, just the length of the backswing and momentum building through the stroke. You can keep the intended cueball contact point, because you don't have to jerk the stroke or twist your body to get more force.

You can still have a short backswing on the short shots, but have power in reserve for the hard shots. And the good part is that the shots will feel the same, only the backswing will change. The accelleration etc will be exactly the same, only longer for the harder shots.

Watch this shot to see the beauty of it:
https://youtu.be/73Vd6SnP7A8?t=49

Click to expand...

Here's what I learned about short backstrokes, and you might appreciate it, given your posting name here.

Players who started out playing14.1 tend to have shorter bridge lengths and shorter backstrokes. Players who started playing rotation games first and then began playing 14.1 tend to have longer bridge lengths but do decrease their backstrokes when playing 14.1.

The reason is because of the number of short shots in 14.1. A long backstroke is detrimental to shooting short shots.

I've shortened my backstroke considerably since I started playing 14.1. Running 6 or 7 balls (like 9 ball) is one thing, but when I'm trying to run 20 or 30, cheating pockets/sneaking balls in, and play very precise position, I feel like it's a lot easier to shoot very precisely with a shorter backstroke.

But in the process, really just in the last month or so where I've really been concentrating on my stroke, I've found that it's forced me to stroke a lot smoother. I just can't "punch" the ball with any precision. To get power with a short backstroke you really need to concentrate on a smooth acceleration, and the long follow through is just a consequence of that. The idea is to keep the stroke consistent. If you start decelerating prematurely, you may well yank the cue off line....or at least I do.

The upshot of all this is that ALL of my games have gotten a lot better. I can now generate a lot more power with much less effort with a short back swing, and when I need more power I use a longer back swing but with the same smooth acceleration. Lots more precision, and effortless power. It was the only way I could get to the point that I can now nail a lot of 14.1 break shots, with good power, where I was simply missing them before or was forced to go into the rack softly.

It's really made a huge difference in my game. Funny enough, I almost started a thread in the 14.1 section last week because I was noticing that a lot of 14.1 players have short, little strokes compared to 9-ball players, and was wondering if anyone else noticed.

SJDinPHX said:

Neil, please explain what you mean here..I am not following your line of reasoning at all..How can an exaggerated bridge length, (like Alex favors) possibly increase 'stroke accuracy'?..Only someone with his exceptional skill, could overcome this obvious shortcoming in his mechanics!

PS..The further away you are from your target, the more chances exist for an error!..That is an undeniable law of physics!

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Dick, the bridge length has nothing to do with it. Unless, you pull back all the way to your bridge. If you only pull back an inch or two, you are much more likely to hit the cb where you want to.

I totally agree with your P.S. But, what counts is the tip, not the bridge hand. The tip never comes back far from the target.