Orcollo might try to beat the 626 record

J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
De420MadHatter said:
Give it up :grin:. He post just to post.
We all know it's super secretive knowledge, and nobody but John has it.
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I didn't know you knew me so well?

Since you know me so well, it would make sense that you know how well/bad i do or don't play, right? Heck, you should even know which games im best/worst at, right?

I mean, you would have to know at least that about my pool skill since you know me well enough to know "why" I say anything i post.

Or:

Are "you" someone that posts, just to post? See, im not gonna say you are doing that. Why? Well, because "I DONT KNOW YOU".

If you know me as well as you "claim", well, you know im ready, willing.....lol...not really able....but, ill play any way.

You have the floor Sir.

Now, just in case you dont know me:

Well, that means your crazy or psychic and either way, i wouldn't want to be around you.

All of AZB will assume that your not a psychic or just crazy...or both and like me, wonder hiw you know such things?

Jeff
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lfigueroa said:
Many a snooker player has expressed the exact same sentiment only to become befuddled soon into a run.

There is knowledge in how to take the balls off the table, how to read the stack and make balls come out or apart, there is bumping balls, and lastly how to go into the stack. There are hundreds of permutations and it takes experience to learn them.

You watch someone like Efren run 100 and he is going to make a mess of it. Sure, he will run 100, but over the long haul an accomplished 14.1 player, who is not needing to shoot banks and circus shots to keep a run going, will out last him.

Lou Figueroa
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TAP TAP TAP....

Great post Lou!

Simple, straight to the point and VERY accurate Sir.

I tried to give you some greens, even though my greens are miniscule compared to most...ill hit you asap Sir.

Again, great post,

Jeff
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
You don't know what you don't know!
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Jay, evidently all it takes to run a huge number in 14.1 is:

Be an experienced player.

What the heck does that even mean?

If thats true then, well, every single top amateur, all the way to the elite players can run endless balls in 14.1 even if:

They have little time playing 14.1 but play snooker or rotation games full time.

The person you were commenting to is obviously not "experienced 14.1 player".

Jeff
 
sfleinen

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
lfigueroa said:
Many a snooker player has expressed the exact same sentiment only to become befuddled soon into a run.

There is knowledge in how to take the balls off the table, how to read the stack and make balls come out or apart, there is bumping balls, and lastly how to go into the stack. There are hundreds of permutations and it takes experience to learn them.

You watch someone like Efren run 100 and he is going to make a mess of it. Sure, he will run 100, but over the long haul an accomplished 14.1 player, who is not needing to shoot banks and circus shots to keep a run going, will out last him.

Lou Figueroa
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I 100% agree! If there is ANY OTHER CUE SPORTS DISCIPLINE with players that also understand "how to go into a stack of balls," it's snooker. And yet, with all the bluster about how superior snooker players are in their fundamentals (which speaks to me personally, because I do agree), name me one snooker player that has approached the level of high-run mastery that an experienced 14.1 player, like John/Mika/Thorsten/Niels/Stephan Cohen have -- all of which have run 400-ball runs, some several times. Snooker's "going into the stack" and 14.1's "going into the stack" are completely different. Yes, same physics, but different desired outcomes; one is focusing on position upon a single ball (e.g. the black), while the other is focusing on continuing the pattern to not cause trouble. Also, as Lou says, a snooker player will rely upon superior shot-making to keep the run going; an experienced 14.1 player will rely upon superior cueball to never get into that trouble to begin with. The former will bite you in the ass; the latter will relegate the circus shots to the rare anomaly.

-Sean
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sfleinen said:
I 100% agree! If there is ANY OTHER CUE SPORTS DISCIPLINE with players that also understand "how to go into a stack of balls," it's snooker. And yet, with all the bluster about how superior snooker players are in their fundamentals (which speaks to me personally, because I do agree), name me one snooker player that has approached the level of high-run mastery that an experienced 14.1 player, like John/Mika/Thorsten/Niels/Stephan Cohen have -- all of which have run 400-ball runs, some several times. Snooker's "going into the stack" and 14.1's "going into the stack" are completely different. Yes, same physics, but different desired outcomes; one is focusing on position upon a single ball (e.g. the black), while the other is focusing on continuing the pattern to not cause trouble. Also, as Lou says, a snooker player will rely upon superior shot-making to keep the run going; an experienced 14.1 player will rely upon superior cueball to never get into that trouble to begin with. The former will bite you in the ass; the latter will relegate the circus shots to the rare anomaly.

-Sean
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Very true.

Man, lots of spot on post in this thread, along with, well, the hardheaded or inexperienced poster's as well.

I guess we have to take the bad with the good.
 
C

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
sfleinen said:
I 100% agree! If there is ANY OTHER CUE SPORTS DISCIPLINE with players that also understand "how to go into a stack of balls," it's snooker. And yet, with all the bluster about how superior snooker players are in their fundamentals (which speaks to me personally, because I do agree), name me one snooker player that has approached the level of high-run mastery that an experienced 14.1 player, like John/Mika/Thorsten/Niels/Stephan Cohen have -- all of which have run 400-ball runs, some several times. Snooker's "going into the stack" and 14.1's "going into the stack" are completely different. Yes, same physics, but different desired outcomes; one is focusing on position upon a single ball (e.g. the black), while the other is focusing on continuing the pattern to not cause trouble. Also, as Lou says, a snooker player will rely upon superior shot-making to keep the run going; an experienced 14.1 player will rely upon superior cueball to never get into that trouble to begin with. The former will bite you in the ass; the latter will relegate the circus shots to the rare anomaly.

-Sean
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To be fair, I can’t think of a single pro level snooker player who has tried for any period of time. Outside of Stuart Pettman in the DCC competition that is. I really don’t know how well pro snooker players would transition to 14.1.
 
V

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cameron Smith said:
To be fair, I can’t think of a single pro level snooker player who has tried for any period of time. Outside of Stuart Pettman in the DCC competition that is. I really don’t know how well pro snooker players would transition to 14.1.
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In a way it is a more logical game to transition to from snooker than 9-Ball, but unless the structure of prize money changes massively (unlikely), we’ll never know if anyone could make that transition.
 
Shuddy

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
Jay, evidently all it takes to run a huge number in 14.1 is:

Be an experienced player.

What the heck does that even mean?

If thats true then, well, every single top amateur, all the way to the elite players can run endless balls in 14.1 even if:

They have little time playing 14.1 but play snooker or rotation games full time.

The person you were commenting to is obviously not "experienced 14.1 player".

Jeff
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That’s not at all what I said. I clearly said it takes a high level of precise positional play, potting accuracy, stamina, focus, and a little run of the balls. And having those things for 626 points is ridiculous.
 
Shuddy

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
vjmehra said:
In a way it is a more logical game to transition to from snooker than 9-Ball, but unless the structure of prize money changes massively (unlikely), we’ll never know if anyone could make that transition.
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It’s much more similar to snooker than rotation games. Snooker players know how to open a pack. And they don’t do it for fun in a game that is...well...not exactly commercially successful. They do it for a living.
 
Shuddy

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
lfigueroa said:
Many a snooker player has expressed the exact same sentiment only to become befuddled soon into a run.

There is knowledge in how to take the balls off the table, how to read the stack and make balls come out or apart, there is bumping balls, and lastly how to go into the stack. There are hundreds of permutations and it takes experience to learn them.

You watch someone like Efren run 100 and he is going to make a mess of it. Sure, he will run 100, but over the long haul an accomplished 14.1 player, who is not needing to shoot banks and circus shots to keep a run going, will out last him.

Lou Figueroa
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Sorry. Which snooker players have expressed this sentiment? I’ve not seen a snooker player spend any time playing straight pool.

I’ve seen AlexP run multiple hundreds, make the final 4, and nearly beat Thorsten Hohmann in his first 14.1 tournament.

That’s the only ‘snooker player’ I’ve seen try straight pool, and he did pretty damn well.

I’m not making light of his accomplishment. It’s a huge achievement. Do I think other players have the skills to to do it yes? Do I think any pro snooker player has the knowledge and skills to do it? Yes. Do I think any of these players could do it? No.

It was a very special effort, an example of focus and dedication that not many people would be able to replicate.
 
Shuddy

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
You don't know what you don't know!
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Words that look meaningful but don’t actually apply here.

I’ve driven a car for 20 years. I’ve watched people drift their cars. I’ve been in a car with someone drifting. I know enough about driving to know after two seconds that I don’t know how to drift.

I’ve played cue sports for just over 20 years. I’ve watched 3 cushion carom and without ever playing it know that there is a bunch of stuff I don’t know about that game.

I’ve never played bank pool. But after watching it, I know there is a bunch of stuff about banking that I don’t know.

I’ve watched hours of straight pool, some with commentary, since JS broke the record (which is an example of his achievement promoting the sport). I don’t see anything special in terms of knowledge in 14.1. Yes, of course there is knowledge specific to straight pool, but it’s not hard to figure out. There’s clearly patterns that lead to good key balls and break balls. But it’s not hard to see them. There’s clearly knowledge in breaking the pack. But it wouldn’t take long to figure it out. I’m not saying my experience playing other cuesports instantly gives me the knowledge required to make century breaks in straight pool. I’m saying it’s gives me enough experience to see what knowledge is required to make high runs in straight pool, and that acquiring that knowledge would not be difficult.

Applying it for 626 balls? Pffff, that’s an entirely different story.
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shuddy said:
Sorry. Which snooker players have expressed this sentiment? I’ve not seen a snooker player spend any time playing straight pool.

I’ve seen AlexP run multiple hundreds, make the final 4, and nearly beat Thorsten Hohmann in his first 14.1 tournament.

That’s the only ‘snooker player’ I’ve seen try straight pool, and he did pretty damn well.

I’m not making light of his accomplishment. It’s a huge achievement. Do I think other players have the skills to to do it yes? Do I think any pro snooker player has the knowledge and skills to do it? Yes. Do I think any of these players could do it? No.

It was a very special effort, an example of focus and dedication that not many people would be able to replicate.
Click to expand...


Back on RSB we would occasionally have players with a background in snooker go on about how easy 14.1 was.

Asked how many they have run and you'd get crickets.

Lou Figueroa
 
inside_english

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
terryhanna said:
Just saw this post from the owner of Buffalo's in New Orleans

He might put up 10k and let Dennis try to break the 626 :eek:

View attachment 521667
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While I am all for breaking records and elevating the game, it would have been great if John Schmidt had gotten $10,000 for breaking it in the first place.

If Dennis or Joshua Filler breaks the record, that's all well and good, but I think they should let John soak up some of the glory of the moment and the achievement. The man has been trying for twenty years and made over 10,000 attempts (his words). To have someone knock him off the perch so soon seems cruel, at least to me.
 
Poolmanis

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lfigueroa said:
Back on RSB we would occasionally have players with a background in snooker go on about how easy 14.1 was.

Asked how many they have run and you'd get crickets.

Lou Figueroa
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Finnish Snooker (former)pro player made 170+ when first tried 14.1. So they can run big numbers for sure.
Not saying they are better than 14.1 players but Snooker players are masters of short roll and stun shots. So their cueball control is normally a lot more pinpoint accurate than pool players.
 
sfleinen

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
inside_english said:
While I am all for breaking records and elevating the game, it would have been great if John Schmidt had gotten $10,000 for breaking it in the first place.

If Dennis or Joshua Filler breaks the record, that's all well and good, but I think they should let John soak up some of the glory of the moment and the achievement. The man has been trying for twenty years and made over 10,000 attempts (his words). To have someone knock him off the perch so soon seems cruel, at least to me.
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There is unfortunately quite the anti-Schmidt crowd as I'm learning, so I'm thinking this is where this sudden fixation (to knock John off the perch) is coming from. I don't agree with it at all -- and lord knows, John and I have had our fisticuffs on social media. But give the man his due and recognize the achievement for what it is, not as a toy to be taken away from him. Later on, after the run has been verified and the video released, *then* try to go after it.

-Sean
 
M

mark187

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
People could try for another 50 years and not beat 626. Someone trying is hardly news. As well as a lot of skill, breaking open the pack and landing good 40+ times also takes luck, to not be hooked any of those times. I wouldn't be surprised if 626 is never beaten.
 
Nostroke

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
Let me be more specific since you OBVIOUSLY missed my point:

Talent without experience is useless when trying to run 626 balls.

Sure, Efren and to be honest, a ton of players down through the years were able to pick the game up very quick......in general.....but, i guarantee you any amount you want that Efren WOULD HAVE broke the record ......"if"..... he COULD HAVE.

And please dont come back with: He did not have an incentive.

Im pretty sure John is about (already has to me) to prove that there was an incentive, just not many that could actually do it without: Stopping their ENTIRE life....family, work, hobbies etc...etc just to "TRY" for maybe many, many months to years.

That my friend is why the record stood for over 60 years and may very well be the reason that John's 626 may stand for just as long or longer.

But: As far as i know, John didn't have anyone telling him, "ill give you $100,000 if you break Willie's record". I may be wrong, if i am, i stand corrected but, i doubt i am.

Not to mention, the free lodging, food etc...etc that ive heard being offered.

John didn't have that. Again, as far as I know that wasn't the case.

Bottom line:

Your talking tournament play where you get what you get...period.

Im talking about the knowledge of knowing what to do to keep the run going long enough to reach 500+ much less 626.

If you think it doesn't require a TON of 14.1 SPECIFIC knowledge, well, your misguided my friend.

Jeff
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Well sure i missed these points-You DIDN'T make ANY of them in the post i quoted. You didn't even mention the record-only 14.1.-Go away.
 
terryhanna

terryhanna

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mark187 said:
People could try for another 50 years and not beat 626. Someone trying is hardly news. As well as a lot of skill, breaking open the pack and landing good 40+ times also takes luck, to not be hooked any of those times. I wouldn't be surprised if 626 is never beaten.
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One guy trying to out do the next guy is just human nature.

From the 1st caveman to pick up a rock and throw it, the next guy picked up a rock and tried to throw it farther lol

Pool is a competitive sport and i don't see anything wrong with somebody trying to break John's record, if they want try let em i say :smile:
 
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