An Exact Aim Point For English

Poolhall60561

Poolhall60561

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Is this the same Eddie that was always hanging out on Pat Fleming’s old Game Show ?
He was more of a fan than a player, but
If it is and he has figured this out I guess there is hope for all of us bad players.
Once he wins a major tournament I’ll pay for the secret, maybe.
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

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trinacria said:
100 plus years of pros playing every game possible 50-60 years of their life. an amateur opened pandoras box.you figured it out. :thumbup:
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I thought for about 15 minutes one night that I found out a "system" to help me make some cut shots by using the "aim at the light dot from lights" thing. Don't remember where I read about it but I decided to try it. Was nailing some tougher shots, made like a half dozen. Called up my friend to come by to show him and by the time he came by I missed as much as I made. Tried it with him also and at the end of a few hours came to the conclusion that I just made those hard shots because I made them not due to the aiming system. My brain probably just was on for those shots through experience of aiming in the first place.

If you can take someone that does not know anything about contact points, spin, deflection, etc... but can shoot a straight in shot, and using some system teach them to make a shot consistently, that would be a valid system. The trick is that the person must not know how to make a cut shot in the first place, otherwise there is no way to know if they made it because of what they already knew or due to the system but they still need to be able to hit the spot they are aiming for. So you basically need an experienced player with a straight stroke that never played a cut shot or a shot with spin LOL
 
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Island Drive

Island Drive

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hang-the-9 said:
I thought for about 15 minutes one night that I found out a "system" to help me make some cut shots by using the "aim at the light dot from lights" thing. Don't remember where I read about it but I decided to try it. Was nailing some tougher shots, made like a half dozen. Called up my friend to come by to show him and by the time he came by I missed as much as I made. Tried it with him also and at the end of a few hours came to the conclusion that I just made those hard shots because I made them not due to the aiming system. My brain probably just was on for those shots through experience of aiming in the first place.
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Jansco's the pit. The bank players talked this way. They had 8 flood lights within the canopy that gave the perfect lighting for ABC's Wild World of Sports filming. Each object ball had 8 white dots on em, targets.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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hang-the-9 said:
I thought for about 15 minutes one night that I found out a "system" to help me make some cut shots by using the "aim at the light dot from lights" thing. Don't remember where I read about it but I decided to try it. Was nailing some tougher shots, made like a half dozen. Called up my friend to come by to show him and by the time he came by I missed as much as I made. Tried it with him also and at the end of a few hours came to the conclusion that I just made those hard shots because I made them not due to the aiming system. My brain probably just was on for those shots through experience of aiming in the first place.
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Like many systems, that one probably worked because it made you pay close attention to the shot.

And like many systems, the "lights on the ball" system is pretty easy to debunk if you think about it a certain way. Here is that way: Take any shot you are shooting by a lights system. That is, the reflection of the light on the object ball gives you a particular aiming point to shoot at. Now, imagine that you and the balls are fixed in space and the entire universe -- or at least the table and the lights -- is rotated using the pocket as the center of rotation. Because the balls remain in a fixed relationship to the pocket, the cut angle remains the same. But as the world turns, the lights move and the reflections of those lights will also move on the object ball. So, the little spots on the object ball are not useful in any systematic way for aiming.
 
trinacria

trinacria

in efren we trust
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hang-the-9 said:
I thought for about 15 minutes one night that I found out a "system" to help me make some cut shots by using the "aim at the light dot from lights" thing. Don't remember where I read about it but I decided to try it. Was nailing some tougher shots, made like a half dozen. Called up my friend to come by to show him and by the time he came by I missed as much as I made. Tried it with him also and at the end of a few hours came to the conclusion that I just made those hard shots because I made them not due to the aiming system. My brain probably just was on for those shots through experience of aiming in the first place.

If you can take someone that does not know anything about contact points, spin, deflection, etc... but can shoot a straight in shot, and using some system teach them to make a shot consistently, that would be a valid system. The trick is that the person must not know how to make a cut shot in the first place, otherwise there is no way to know if they made it because of what they already knew or due to the system but they still need to be able to hit the spot they are aiming for. So you basically need an experienced player with a straight stroke that never played a cut shot or a shot with spin LOL
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Good point i guess. Kinda like a first discovery thing that wasnt tainted by something else before it
 
C

Catalin

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Bob Jewett said:
But the path of the cue ball is still curved on the way to the object ball when you use side spin, and that's why the distance changes the required aim.
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That doesn't sound right. When side spin is applied, the ball travels in a straight line onces it gets moving I thought. The exception being in snooker when shooting against the "grain" of the cloth.

Julian
 
Bob Jewett

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Catalin said:
That doesn't sound right. When side spin is applied, the ball travels in a straight line onces it gets moving I thought. The exception being in snooker when shooting against the "grain" of the cloth.

Julian
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That's true. The curved part of the path is a parabola and then the path is straight when the cue ball has achieved smooth rolling on the cloth.

But you are not aiming with the straight part of the path. Or at least I don't think you are. Most people aim using the line of the cue stick or a straight imaginary line from the cue ball to the ghost ball or a straight line from contact point to contact point. I don't think anyone uses the the straight part of the cue ball's path directly.

In any case, for any parabola-then-straight path, the straight part of the path when extended back cannot go through the center of the initial cue ball. That means from the initial location of the cue ball, the straight portion will always be moving left-to-right or right-to-left across the field of view. The cue ball will never be moving straight away from it's initial location.

Try drawing some "curved then straight" lines and see if this is true. Unless the curve is an S-curve I'm pretty sure what I said above is correct.
 
336Robin

336Robin

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I've always assumed what you said a little more simply but same results. As you said before shot pressure changes things. Since shot pressure
changes the length of the parabola and the path may never be perfectly straight distance is also an issue.

Even with those complications if you set up and fire in some reasonable angles 45 degree angle shots with both outside and inside spin you can walk away
from that event with some knowledge for future use.

You think about the distances and if you use a consistent stroke for your initial shots then you know pictorially what the allowance looks like so longer distances
you would allow more or for harder strokes at that distance and thusly make a good guess at the Kentucky windage you need to apply.

As you make successful guesses you gain application knowledge provided you know the distance between the object ball and cue ball.

Since the parabola is the most affected portion of the path you can usually guess pretty close once you've done this a few times.

This guy might be firing in some shots from 1 and maybe up to 3 diamonds away with BHE outside spin but that would be real generous
due to the slippage of the cue ball crossing the object ball with outside spin.

I can't imagine it being so easy with inside spin because the spin goes in opposing the direction of the cue ball and grips harder on the object ball.
If it is I'd sure like to see it. Is it worth anything sure. You get the warm fuzzies when you teach it someone.

Warm Fuzzies are Awesome!


Bob Jewett said:
That's true. The curved part of the path is a parabola and then the path is straight when the cue ball has achieved smooth rolling on the cloth.

But you are not aiming with the straight part of the path. Or at least I don't think you are. Most people aim using the line of the cue stick or a straight imaginary line from the cue ball to the ghost ball or a straight line from contact point to contact point. I don't think anyone uses the the straight part of the cue ball's path directly.

In any case, for any parabola-then-straight path, the straight part of the path when extended back cannot go through the center of the initial cue ball. That means from the initial location of the cue ball, the straight portion will always be moving left-to-right or right-to-left across the field of view. The cue ball will never be moving straight away from it's initial location.

Try drawing some "curved then straight" lines and see if this is true. Unless the curve is an S-curve I'm pretty sure what I said above is correct.
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JazzyJeff87

JazzyJeff87

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Catalin said:
That doesn't sound right. When side spin is applied, the ball travels in a straight line onces it gets moving I thought. The exception being in snooker when shooting against the "grain" of the cloth.

Julian
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I see what you’re saying I think. So distance would matter to a point. Past point X the ball will be straightened out so adjusting your aim for X would also work for anything past that point, unless you change the shot speed.
 
D

DecentShot

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Catalin said:
That doesn't sound right. When side spin is applied, the ball travels in a straight line onces it gets moving I thought. The exception being in snooker when shooting against the "grain" of the cloth.

Julian
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The thread title is a misnomer anyway. You don't have an exact aim point for "english." You have an exact aim point for the shot based on the POCKET and the available space within that pocket for the shot you are currently down on. The english is one of the last things "added."

P.S.
I have never seen anyone else mimic my PRS before stroking. However Bob Jewett's PRS is identical to mine. I won't get too deep into my system, but Bob...do you use the center of your chest (nose) as your part of your "beginning?"
 
Bob Jewett

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DecentShot said:
... but Bob...do you use the center of your chest (nose) as your part of your "beginning?"
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No, I just put the stick along the line it needs to be on to make the shot. I know what that line is because I've played for a while.
 
C

Catalin

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Thank you for explaining guys. I guess I don't really care about the CB path to the OB. I lock my eyes on the contact point on the OB, accounting for throw when using outside spin and only for deflection when using inside. And since I'm using a custom Revo these days and rarely put extreme spin on the ball, the deflection is minimal.

Julian
 
C

Catalin

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Bob Jewett said:
If the cue ball is spinning with just the right amount of outside side spin that there is no left-right rubbing on the object ball, the speed makes no difference and the object ball is not thrown to the left or right. It is sent exactly along the ideal cut line as for the ideal ghost ball aiming system. In fact, if there is a skid, the cut angle is not changed.
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The speed of the CB does influence the amount of spin transferred to the OB I think. From what I've read and experienced, slow shots with a lot of spin transfer more spin on the OB than fast shots.

Julian
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

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Catalin said:
The speed of the CB does influence the amount of spin transferred to the OB I think.
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As Bob said, with just the right amount of outside spin (so the CB “rolls” across the surface of the OB without any rubbing friction), there is no transferred spin (or throw) to be affected by CB speed - it’s zero at all speeds.

From what I've read and experienced, slow shots with a lot of spin transfer more spin on the OB than fast shots.
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Slower is usually better for that, but the amount of spin affects the rubbing speed between the balls. Too much spin = too much rubbing speed = less spin transfer/throw. Also, the direction of spin has an effect - inside spin increases rubbing speed; outside spin decreases it. It's not as simple as your statement.

pj
chgo
 
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