Woods for cues?

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Nohomegnome

Nohomegnome
I am currently in the process of designing a cue to be made. However, I'm getting a little bogged down with all the different wood options. I keep reading different things about how one wood is a "good hitter", while others are more just for aesthetics. I am considering getting a four-point, four-veneer cue, with a red/reddish brown color wood for the butt sleeve and points, then a lighter color for the forearm. However, I'm hoping to do both in a highly-figured wood (ie. Red Malle Burl and Quilted Maple).

1. How much do the woods in the butt affect hit/feel?
2. Are there options for what I'm going for aesthetically that will lend themselves more to a "good hit", as subjective as that is?
3. Assuming there is a combination of woods that works well, do you think the veneers will get lost in the mix with such bold woods?

I know some of this is just preference, but I'll take any help I can get. Thanks.
 
PRED

PRED

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nohomegnome said:
I am currently in the process of designing a cue to be made. However, I'm getting a little bogged down with all the different wood options. I keep reading different things about how one wood is a "good hitter", while others are more just for aesthetics. I am considering getting a four-point, four-veneer cue, with a red/reddish brown color wood for the butt sleeve and points, then a lighter color for the forearm. However, I'm hoping to do both in a highly-figured wood (ie. Red Malle Burl and Quilted Maple).

1. How much do the woods in the butt affect hit/feel?
2. Are there options for what I'm going for aesthetically that will lend themselves more to a "good hit", as subjective as that is?
3. Assuming there is a combination of woods that works well, do you think the veneers will get lost in the mix with such bold woods?

I know some of this is just preference, but I'll take any help I can get. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Burl and quilted Maple will need to be cored.
 
Chopdoc

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am not a cue maker, but love talking about this and reading here.

Cored? Full splice? Many variables.

IMHO cue makers often have their own ideas about such thing and it can also have to do with their construction methods. I would definitely work this out with your cue maker, and I would definitely give him some license in such matters.

I would pick the maker first and then design it with him. If you do the reverse you may find he does not have the wood you want or does not work with certain materials you want. Sure, maybe he can buy the wood, but has it been properly aged etc? Does he trust it? Maybe he prefers to work with something he has had in his shop for 20 years that he knows personally is stable. You will not know until you ask him.

Beyond that I am sure you will get some very good opinions from makers here and I will be very interested myself as usual.

.
 
N

Nohomegnome

Nohomegnome
Chopdoc said:
I am not a cue maker, but love talking about this and reading here.

Cored? Full splice? Many variables.

IMHO cue makers often have their own ideas about such thing and it can also have to do with their construction methods. I would definitely work this out with your cue maker, and I would definitely give him some license in such matters.

I would pick the maker first and then design it with him. If you do the reverse you may find he does not have the wood you want or does not work with certain materials you want. Sure, maybe he can buy the wood, but has it been properly aged etc? Does he trust it? Maybe he prefers to work with something he has had in his shop for 20 years that he knows personally is stable. You will not know until you ask him.

Beyond that I am sure you will get some very good opinions from makers here and I will be very interested myself as usual.

.
Click to expand...

I should add that the cue will have a wrap, so it wouldn't be a full splice with the burl.
 
PRED

PRED

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nohomegnome said:
I should add that the cue will have a wrap, so it wouldn't be a full splice with the burl.
Click to expand...

A full splice cue can be wrapped. Burl is considered unstable and coring eliminates that problem. Quilted Maple is a softer wood than hard rock Maple and will also benefit from coring.
 
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Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Not a terribly difficult cue to build, but not an easy cue to make hit good. I'd advise finding a maker with experience in this hybrid style of classic/crazy wood/artistic, and who is also known for making a nice playing cue. That should narrow your options down significantly. Once you have that tiny list of makers, reach out to them with your ideas and begin narrowing it to one. It's an advanced difficulty cue so don't cheap out or you'll regret it.
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it helps if you define fot us what you think is the traits of of a good hit. Most of what you feel is the tip, ferrule and shaft. It's not that the butt doesn't matter, but it's harder to define. Obvious thing like a very thick or slim butt or extreme forward or rear balance aside, and of course the grip or lack of one, it can be tricky to say, especially since you mention woods that are usually cored.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Kim Bye said:
Most of what you feel is the tip, ferrule and shaft. It's not that the butt doesn't matter, but it's harder to define. Obvious thing like a very thick or slim butt or extreme forward or rear balance aside, and of course the grip or lack of one, it can be tricky to say, especially since you mention woods that are usually cored.
Click to expand...

I disagree 110%. IMO, cues are much like music. The tip will be your treble and the butt cap your bass, with the entire spectrum in between. Take one shaft & use it on multiple butts over all similar dimension, and it'll be a different cue with different feel every time.

Case in point take a solid cocobolo butt and a solid balsa wood butt. Make them the exact same dimensions, weight, and balance. Same shaft either butt. They will not hit or feel the same, nor will the cue ball react the same on a given shot. Power, spin, feel, everything will be drastically different.
 
cueman

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Since this cue is getting a wrap I think it would be no problem to make a good playing and good looking cue with the two woods you chose.
Or most any other burl wood in the points and butt sleeve with most any kind of figured maple in the forearm. The right color of veneers will look fine also.
 
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Nohomegnome

Nohomegnome
qbilder said:
Not a terribly difficult cue to build, but not an easy cue to make hit good. I'd advise finding a maker with experience in this hybrid style of classic/crazy wood/artistic, and who is also known for making a nice playing cue. That should narrow your options down significantly. Once you have that tiny list of makers, reach out to them with your ideas and begin narrowing it to one. It's an advanced difficulty cue so don't cheap out or you'll regret it.
Click to expand...

Starting to sound like my eyes may be bigger than my stomach, or in this case my wallet, haha. I've got a local guy that made my current cue, but I'm not sure if he has much experience with the types of wood I'm looking at. If he doesn't, I'll have to start looking around a bit more. BTW, if this is Eric, I have to tell you I'm a big fan of your work. Beautiful cues.
 
N

Nohomegnome

Nohomegnome
cueman said:
Since this cue is getting a wrap I think it would be no problem to make a good playing and good looking cue with the two woods you chose.
Or most any other burl wood in the points and butt sleeve with most any kind of figured maple in the forearm. The right color of veneers will look fine also.
Click to expand...

Thinking classic Titlist veneers with a white w/green wrap.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Nohomegnome said:
Starting to sound like my eyes may be bigger than my stomach, or in this case my wallet, haha. I've got a local guy that made my current cue, but I'm not sure if he has much experience with the types of wood I'm looking at. If he doesn't, I'll have to start looking around a bit more. BTW, if this is Eric, I have to tell you I'm a big fan of your work. Beautiful cues.
Click to expand...

Yup it's me. Thank you:)

Don't get turned away from it. It's not impossible. It's just that the quilted maple is very soft, light, and weak. Subbing it with say birdseye or curly hard maple would increase the chances of it hitting really nice.
 
N

Nohomegnome

Nohomegnome
On a side note, I really wish there was a comprehensive (or as close as one could get within reason) cue design website. I know McDermott has one, but it is really limited. Click and drag different woods, create veneer patterns, wrap options, joints, collars, etc. I don't have the capability to create such a thing, but I think it would be really helpful for players and cue makers alike.
 
T

thoffen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Quilted Maple refers to a certain figure seen in soft Maple species. You can get some really great curl/birdseye figure from hard Maple, which is a better choice for a forearm. Burl (any species) points would be fine. Although lots could make a structurally sound cored forearm out of burl or soft Maple, making it a great player is another story. There are also some great woods that can be naturally figured and quite excellent for cue construction (e.g. bocote, cocobolo, Brazilian Kingwood, Mexican Kingwood/camatillo rosewood, sapele, koa). Lots more -- just what popped into my head immediately.
 
Bumlak

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
qbilder said:
I disagree 110%. IMO, cues are much like music. The tip will be your treble and the butt cap your bass, with the entire spectrum in between. Take one shaft & use it on multiple butts over all similar dimension, and it'll be a different cue with different feel every time.

Case in point take a solid cocobolo butt and a solid balsa wood butt. Make them the exact same dimensions, weight, and balance. Same shaft either butt. They will not hit or feel the same, nor will the cue ball react the same on a given shot. Power, spin, feel, everything will be drastically different.
Click to expand...

Eric and I talked about this at length when I visited his shop. My introduction to woodworking came through custom drum building. It's a simple fact that different woods vibrate differently. In drum building, we combine different woods in plys to develop a certain tone. Heavy woods such as rosewoods, cocobolo and the like will produce a dramatically different sound and feel (dark, round and warm with a lot of sustain.) Now line the inner plies of a rosewood drum with a few plies of maple and suddenly you get a fast attack with a little quicker decay. When you start tone matching the woods, you can produce some beautiful sounding results.

The same certainly is true with cues and the more I've started to really take the advise of makers like Eric, the more I've started to really tinker with wood choices to make a cue with buyer specs hit as well as it possibly can.
 
S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are also some great woods that can be naturally figured and quite excellent for cue construction (e.g. bocote, cocobolo, Brazilian Kingwood, Mexican Kingwood/camatillo rosewood, sapele, koa). Lots more -- just what popped into my head immediately.
Click to expand...

I started making cues at the hobbyist level out of wild wood received in larger batches of lumber received for millwork projects. Yes, this has included Cobola, Ebony, and African Blackwood, purple heart, etc, among many.
Though i have not yet been brave enough to risk nice Cocobola or Ebony planks for cues until i get a bit better, or more correctly, until i develop a better artistic capability.

Quick question - has anyone else ever made a butt out of Wenge? I got the notion it would be ideal for a butt based on hardness, stability, etc, etc. Thought if nothing else it ought to be a good breaker. But it is the only stick (no-wrap merry) i've made that feels really "dead".. So wondering if it is me, or the wood. :D

Quilted ipe seems to have some merit, but tough to keep straight.

Anyone else played with these?

Anyone tried/like Paduak? Blood wood? (I have some of both, actually lots of Bloodwood, have not tried it in a cue yet)

smt
 
N

Nohomegnome

Nohomegnome
thoffen said:
Quilted Maple refers to a certain figure seen in soft Maple species. You can get some really great curl/birdseye figure from hard Maple, which is a better choice for a forearm. Burl (any species) points would be fine. Although lots could make a structurally sound cored forearm out of burl or soft Maple, making it a great player is another story. There are also some great woods that can be naturally figured and quite excellent for cue construction (e.g. bocote, cocobolo, Brazilian Kingwood, Mexican Kingwood/camatillo rosewood, sapele, koa). Lots more -- just what popped into my head immediately.
Click to expand...

I have been looking at Sapele, too. If I did that instead of the Malle burl, and curly maple instead of the quilted, would that be a better combo for ease of construction and a solid player?
 
T

thoffen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ssonerai said:
I started making cues at the hobbyist level out of wild wood received in larger batches of lumber received for millwork projects. Yes, this has included Cobola, Ebony, and African Blackwood, purple heart, etc, among many.
Though i have not yet been brave enough to risk nice Cocobola or Ebony planks for cues until i get a bit better, or more correctly, until i develop a better artistic capability.

Quick question - has anyone else ever made a butt out of Wenge? I got the notion it would be ideal for a butt based on hardness, stability, etc, etc. Thought if nothing else it ought to be a good breaker. But it is the only stick (no-wrap merry) i've made that feels really "dead".. So wondering if it is me, or the wood. :D

Quilted ipe seems to have some merit, but tough to keep straight.

Anyone else played with these?

Anyone tried/like Paduak? Blood wood? (I have some of both, actually lots of Bloodwood, have not tried it in a cue yet)

smt
Click to expand...

Wenge has been used in cues. One of the woods sometimes used in titlists and the like. Not sure how much beyond that. Not much of a looker. Is it your construction or the wood? I don't know. But there can be a lot of difference between each piece of wood in the same species.

Padauk and bloodwood have both been used, although bloodwood doesn't hold color well and bleeds a lot.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Ssonerai said:
I started making cues at the hobbyist level out of wild wood received in larger batches of lumber received for millwork projects. Yes, this has included Cobola, Ebony, and African Blackwood, purple heart, etc, among many.
Though i have not yet been brave enough to risk nice Cocobola or Ebony planks for cues until i get a bit better, or more correctly, until i develop a better artistic capability.

Quick question - has anyone else ever made a butt out of Wenge? I got the notion it would be ideal for a butt based on hardness, stability, etc, etc. Thought if nothing else it ought to be a good breaker. But it is the only stick (no-wrap merry) i've made that feels really "dead".. So wondering if it is me, or the wood. :D

Quilted ipe seems to have some merit, but tough to keep straight.

Anyone else played with these?

Anyone tried/like Paduak? Blood wood? (I have some of both, actually lots of Bloodwood, have not tried it in a cue yet)

smt
Click to expand...

Wenge is usually an ideal cue wood. It has the right density, is generally ultra stable, and has very nice tonal character. That said, perhaps you got a dud piece or maybe did something wrong somewhere.

Paduak is a bit lightweight but beautifully colored and bright tone. It'll turn dark red over time & eventually dull, dark brown. Bloodwood is nice, too. It's heavy like an ebony or dense rosewood. I haven't had issues with it changing color.
 
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