How I look at it.

a1712

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Swighey

AzB Silver Member
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I have never shot an opponent the entire time I have shot pool. I've always figured, besides playing a safety, my opponent can not affect my game in any way. In other sports a person can block your shot, tackle you, throw you a changeup, check you in to the boards etc., etc, this doesn't come into play in pool. I've always concentrated on getting out and making sure my opponent couldn't if I couldn't. So I seriously don't care one bit who I'm competing against as they don't deter me one way or another. Anyone else use this line of thinking? Brian.

Nonsense, complete and utter. You should always play your game but you are always playing your opponent. If you weren’t then you wouldn’t, er, be playing your opponent.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
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I agree with the original poster.

I'd like to know how often you really get an advantage from knowing an opponent's strengths and weaknesses and changing your shot based on that. I bet people do adjust their shots sometimes, but how often do they really get an advantage from it? I bet it's not very often.

I'd think it is pretty common in 1p, push out rotation games it is absolutely necessary.

I can recall a tale I've shared here before: I played a tournament once and was playing an opponent who would get robbed by me, giving the 7. Set is to 7 or 9 and I got one, vs. opponent on the hill. (Everything I did was pretty good, until I shot the 8 or 9).

My opponent had no idea what to do when I put to ob on the end rail and cb in the middle of the table. I won that set and I bunted all shots that weren't easy to the aforementioned locations. I left the same shot for opponent prob 20x in that sense and oponenet literally sold out every time.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
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Pool is a war game.
Any general in a war who doesn’t learn anything about the enemy....
...needs to be busted to private.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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I'd think it is pretty common in 1p, push out rotation games it is absolutely necessary.

I can recall a tale I've shared here before: I played a tournament once and was playing an opponent who would get robbed by me, giving the 7. Set is to 7 or 9 and I got one, vs. opponent on the hill. (Everything I did was pretty good, until I shot the 8 or 9).

My opponent had no idea what to do when I put to ob on the end rail and cb in the middle of the table. I won that set and I bunted all shots that weren't easy to the aforementioned locations. I left the same shot for opponent prob 20x in that sense and oponenet literally sold out every time.

Definitely. There are players I play 1p with that I spot 10-5. I know I can leave certain shots that they will absolutely go for and sell out. I would never leave these same shots to player I'm matched up with evenly. Knowing and exploiting your opponent's weaknesses leads to more winning.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
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I agree with the original poster.

I'd like to know how often you really get an advantage from knowing an opponent's strengths and weaknesses and changing your shot based on that. I bet people do adjust their shots sometimes, but how often do they really get an advantage from it? I bet it's not very often.

I’d say it happens several times in every tournament I’ve ever won.

Consider the extremes. When you play the ghost, you’re absolutely playing the opponent. Your strategy in shooting against the ghost is that your opponent will never miss. Now consider the other extreme where you’re playing an APA 1 in 9-ball. You don’t have to gun at the tough eight or nine ball against an APA 1, yet you must against the ghost.

In between the APA 1 and The Ghost is a whole range of tougher decisions that get to a 50/50 affair somewhere in the middle.

Fredddie <~~~ can’t win at either end
 

Matt

AzB Silver Member
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I think that playing your opponent is especially important when you're playing handicapped tournaments or leagues. For example, knowing that a weaker opponent isn't likely to run out a rack might allow you to play more aggressively early in a set or play a weak safety with the expectation of returning to the table. Alternately, when playing a stronger opponent, you may be better off taking a tough shot to avoid letting them back on the table.

It's true that your opponent doesn't matter if you're just stringing together racks, but even the pros don't do that consistently, so everyone will eventually have to make a choice to take a low-percentage shot or play safe. I see no reason to ignore your opponent's skill in that decision.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
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I’d say it happens several times in every tournament I’ve ever won.

Consider the extremes. When you play the ghost, you’re absolutely playing the opponent. Your strategy in shooting against the ghost is that your opponent will never miss. Now consider the other extreme where you’re playing an APA 1 in 9-ball. You don’t have to gun at the tough eight or nine ball against an APA 1, yet you must against the ghost.

In between the APA 1 and The Ghost is a whole range of tougher decisions that get to a 50/50 affair somewhere in the middle.

Fredddie <~~~ can’t win at either end

Weaker vs. stronger opponents is a good example because it’s so much more clear than “good banker” vs. “good jumper” or “good kicker.”

With the never-miss ghost, you never play a safety. So if you extend that, the strategy is: The weaker the player, the more safeties you should play? Because I’m pretty sure that’s the opposite of how I play lol. I’ll take wild shots when I’m playing weaker players because I know they can’t run out and I’ll get back to the table. I play tighter against stronger players. Have I got it wrong?

I think playing the ghost is really just a different game than playing an opponent. It’s a game to test run-out ability, and you don’t ever play safeties. But that’s never the case playing an opponent. If you’ve got a good safety and no shot, you just play the best safety you can muster, no matter the skill level of the opponent.

Or if I’ve interpreted that wrong, what is the strategy against weaker vs. stronger players? My guess is that the same shots that maximize winning against stronger players also maximize winning against weaker players, but maybe that's wrong.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd think it is pretty common in 1p, push out rotation games it is absolutely necessary.

I can recall a tale I've shared here before: I played a tournament once and was playing an opponent who would get robbed by me, giving the 7. Set is to 7 or 9 and I got one, vs. opponent on the hill. (Everything I did was pretty good, until I shot the 8 or 9).

My opponent had no idea what to do when I put to ob on the end rail and cb in the middle of the table. I won that set and I bunted all shots that weren't easy to the aforementioned locations. I left the same shot for opponent prob 20x in that sense and oponenet literally sold out every time.

haha that's a good one. Yeah if something flummoxes your opponent once, keep using it. Makes sense to me.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
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Weaker vs. stronger opponents is a good example because it’s so much more clear than “good banker” vs. “good jumper” or “good kicker.”

With the never-miss ghost, you never play a safety. So if you extend that, the strategy is: The weaker the player, the more safeties you should play? Because I’m pretty sure that’s the opposite of how I play lol. I’ll take wild shots when I’m playing weaker players because I know they can’t run out and I’ll get back to the table. I play tighter against stronger players. Have I got it wrong?

I think playing the ghost is really just a different game than playing an opponent. It’s a game to test run-out ability, and you don’t ever play safeties. But that’s never the case playing an opponent. If you’ve got a good safety and no shot, you just play the best safety you can muster, no matter the skill level of the opponent.

Or if I’ve interpreted that wrong, what is the strategy against weaker vs. stronger players? My guess is that the same shots that maximize winning against stronger players also maximize winning against weaker players, but maybe that's wrong.
It's all situational. Take the two 9-ball scenarios:

1. Very early in the rack, say seven balls still on the table, and you've come up on a difficult bank shot that if you make it, you've got a great shot at running out.

a. Against a guy who can't string three balls in a row, you fire the bank
b. Against a guy who will run out if you miss the bank, a safety is in play for you.

They are not the same decision.


2. You've got the 8-ball and 9-ball left, and you have a difficult shot on the 8-ball, maybe a 30% proposition.

a. Against a guy who can't string three balls, even a mediocre safety is high percentage for you to win. Play a safety rather than risk hanging the ball and giving the two-ball out to the hacker.

b. Against a guy who is a 650 Fargo, your safe better be lock-up good. The safety play is going to be just as likely to lose as the offensive shot. Offensive becomes a stronger play overall against a good player rather than hope his skills are going to fail him on two balls.


And so on down the road.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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It's all situational. Take the two 9-ball scenarios:

1. Very early in the rack, say seven balls still on the table, and you've come up on a difficult bank shot that if you make it, you've got a great shot at running out.

a. Against a guy who can't string three balls in a row, you fire the bank
b. Against a guy who will run out if you miss the bank, a safety is in play for you.

They are not the same decision.


2. You've got the 8-ball and 9-ball left, and you have a difficult shot on the 8-ball, maybe a 30% proposition.

a. Against a guy who can't string three balls, even a mediocre safety is high percentage for you to win. Play a safety rather than risk hanging the ball and giving the two-ball out to the hacker.

b. Against a guy who is a 650 Fargo, your safe better be lock-up good. The safety play is going to be just as likely to lose as the offensive shot. Offensive becomes a stronger play overall against a good player rather than hope his skills are going to fail him on two balls.


And so on down the road.

Very good examples. These situations come up often, and playing with a good understanding of your opponent's skill level is a must. If the safety is low-percentage for a lock up, you have to have a pretty good idea what your opponent can do if you don't get the lock up. Playing a strong player, if it's a 50/50 choice on whether I can pull off a great safety or a great winning shot, I'm going for the shot. With a weaker player my safety wouldn't have to be a dead nuts lock up.
 
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a1712

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MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
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A push out is obviously a case where you need to measure yourself against the player in your shot selection. Then there’s safeties and two-way shots. Here I disagree with the OP.

A runout shouldn’t matter the opponent. It’s interesting how a better opponent can bring out your A Game and a banger can bring out your C Game. Yet sometimes a really tough opponent can put you on tilt. If you can stay consistent and avoid that, Kudos! Here I agree with the OP.


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