Custom Cue
- Thread starter Dawgie
- Start date
Custom is built to my specs.....
Everything else is a cue not built for me...even is it's a __(fill in)____. if it wasnt built for me, then it isnt customed...might indeed be a one off...but not custom....
Everything else is a cue not built for me...even is it's a __(fill in)____. if it wasnt built for me, then it isnt customed...might indeed be a one off...but not custom....
smokeandapancak said:
even if it's not built for you it can still be custom. many people have similar "construction likes". that said, with many custom cues having allot of the same specs or ones that can be easily changed without too much trouble someone's "personally "customed" cue, as you put it, can be someone else's as well.
rather than asking what a custom cue is, i think that kinda says it all in itself. a better question could be, what factors determine whether a maker is more a custom or production one?? ..... imo there are 3 main things you need to know about them......
1. does the maker allow for many aspects of the cue construction process to be altered to the customers specs?? ....within reason of course.....
2. does the maker allow the buyer flexibility of design?? ....within their abilities
3. does the maker allow for material changes throughout the entire cue?? ....again within reason
...........keep in mind, some makers won't do certain things and some could think that could maybe move them away from being on the "custom" list but for many that couldn't be farther from the truth. those who know custom makers know that they are very finicky about their work. many spending much time getting "it" to where they want and certain changes would not be beneficial nor desirable for the final product output.
oh!! i for got the final one for a custom maker..........
4. do you reach for a box of tissues upon delivery of the cue..........for two reasons...............tears of joy.........................then poverty.....
To me a Custom cue is a cue completed totally by a single person, and totally unique ( Truly 1 of 1). To break this down, in my opinion all wood used should start as squares or over sized rounds, all inlays should be either hand cut or by use of a manual Pantograph, (no CNC Machinery). Any splicing techniques (IE, Butterfly, Short, Re-cut, or full) should be done by the individual him or herself not purchased for use.
In my opinion anything else is just a conversion cue, that was convert from the efforts of many individuals through the vision of a single person.
This in my opinion is the currently problem with the cue market today. There are numerous people who are assembling cues in the same manner contractors build pre-fabricated homes. These people use the latest technology / computer driven machinery to create cues very quickly and to make some very intricate designs. While these cues are mostly very sound, they are not truly custom, because with the flip of a switch and the loading of a computer program that same design can be exactly duplicated.
In addition many of these people have not and can not build cues in a traditional manner without the use of this technology. Than there is the price, what kills me is that many of these individuals expect to be paid as much for their work as the few traditional cue makers who build their products by hand, which to me is a JOKE and very LAUGHABLE!!!!!!
For those wishing to purchase Custom made collectors cue, a little research will show you where to spend your money, I mean this is not rocket science. To a man, the Traditional Custom Cue makers are the ones who have the long never ending waiting lists, with few exceptions, not the so called Artists with a flare for computers technology.
Sorry if I have offended anyone, these are my opinions!!!!!!
Have a nice day!!!!!
In my opinion anything else is just a conversion cue, that was convert from the efforts of many individuals through the vision of a single person.
This in my opinion is the currently problem with the cue market today. There are numerous people who are assembling cues in the same manner contractors build pre-fabricated homes. These people use the latest technology / computer driven machinery to create cues very quickly and to make some very intricate designs. While these cues are mostly very sound, they are not truly custom, because with the flip of a switch and the loading of a computer program that same design can be exactly duplicated.
In addition many of these people have not and can not build cues in a traditional manner without the use of this technology. Than there is the price, what kills me is that many of these individuals expect to be paid as much for their work as the few traditional cue makers who build their products by hand, which to me is a JOKE and very LAUGHABLE!!!!!!
For those wishing to purchase Custom made collectors cue, a little research will show you where to spend your money, I mean this is not rocket science. To a man, the Traditional Custom Cue makers are the ones who have the long never ending waiting lists, with few exceptions, not the so called Artists with a flare for computers technology.
Sorry if I have offended anyone, these are my opinions!!!!!!
Have a nice day!!!!!
manwon said:To me a Custom cue is a cue completed totally by a single person, and totally unique ( Truly 1 of 1). To break this down, in my opinion all wood used should start as squares or over sized rounds, all inlays should be either hand cut or by use of a manual Pantograph, (no CNC Machinery). Any splicing techniques (IE, Butterfly, Short, Re-cut, or full) should be done by the individual him or herself not purchased for use.
In my opinion anything else is just a conversion cue, that was convert from the efforts of many individuals through the vision of a single person.
This in my opinion is the currently problem with the cue market today. There are numerous people who are assembling cues in the same manner contractors build pre-fabricated homes. These people use the latest technology / computer driven machinery to create cues very quickly and to make some very intricate designs. While these cues are mostly very sound, they are not truly custom, because with the flip of a switch and the loading of a computer program that same design can be exactly duplicated.
In addition many of these people have not and can not build cues in a traditional manner without the use of this technology. Than there is the price, what kills me is that many of these individuals expect to be paid as much for their work as the few traditional cue makers who build their products by hand, which to me is a JOKE and very LAUGHABLE!!!!!!
For those wishing to purchase Custom made collectors cue, a little research will show you where to spend your money, I mean this is not rocket science. To a man, the Traditional Custom Cue makers are the ones who have the long never ending waiting lists, with few exceptions, not the so called Artists with a flare for computers technology.
Sorry if I have offended anyone, these are my opinions!!!!!!
Have a nice day!!!!!
Cues made by custom cue makers... Anything other than a mass produced, production cue.
Bigjohn said:
Ok John, lets say that you have a Custom Cue Maker who makes many of the exact same models in his one person or two person shop. When will he become a production verse a custom Cue Maker?
John, every American Production Cue Company / Cue maker started out custom.
1. a habitual practice; the usual way of acting in given circumstances.
2. habits or usages collectively; convention.
3. a practice so long established that it has the force of law.
4. such practices collectively.
5. Sociology. a group pattern of habitual activity usually transmitted from one generation to another.
6. toll; duty.
7. customs,
a. (used with a singular or plural verb) duties imposed by law on imported or, less commonly, exported goods.
b. (used with a singular verb) the government department that collects these duties.
c. (used with a singular verb) the section of an airport, station, etc., where baggage is checked for contraband and for goods subject to duty.
8. regular patronage of a particular shop, restaurant, etc.
9. the customers or patrons of a business firm, collectively.
10. the aggregate of customers.
11. (in medieval Europe) a customary tax, tribute, or service owed by peasants to their lord.
–adjective
12. made specially for individual customers: custom shoes.
13. dealing in things so made, or doing work to order: a custom tailor.
2. habits or usages collectively; convention.
3. a practice so long established that it has the force of law.
4. such practices collectively.
5. Sociology. a group pattern of habitual activity usually transmitted from one generation to another.
6. toll; duty.
7. customs,
a. (used with a singular or plural verb) duties imposed by law on imported or, less commonly, exported goods.
b. (used with a singular verb) the government department that collects these duties.
c. (used with a singular verb) the section of an airport, station, etc., where baggage is checked for contraband and for goods subject to duty.
8. regular patronage of a particular shop, restaurant, etc.
9. the customers or patrons of a business firm, collectively.
10. the aggregate of customers.
11. (in medieval Europe) a customary tax, tribute, or service owed by peasants to their lord.
–adjective
12. made specially for individual customers: custom shoes.
13. dealing in things so made, or doing work to order: a custom tailor.
If I dont order it..then it isnt custom to my specs, for me....
its just another cue built with no input from me....sure it might fit the bill for what I am looking for ..but it isnt custom.
its just another cue built with no input from me....sure it might fit the bill for what I am looking for ..but it isnt custom.
manwon said:To me a Custom cue is a cue completed totally by a single person, and totally unique ( Truly 1 of 1). To break this down, in my opinion all wood used should start as squares or over sized rounds, all inlays should be either hand cut or by use of a manual Pantograph, (no CNC Machinery). Any splicing techniques (IE, Butterfly, Short, Re-cut, or full) should be done by the individual him or herself not purchased for use.
In my opinion anything else is just a conversion cue, that was convert from the efforts of many individuals through the vision of a single person.
This in my opinion is the currently problem with the cue market today. There are numerous people who are assembling cues in the same manner contractors build pre-fabricated homes. These people use the latest technology / computer driven machinery to create cues very quickly and to make some very intricate designs. While these cues are mostly very sound, they are not truly custom, because with the flip of a switch and the loading of a computer program that same design can be exactly duplicated.
In addition many of these people have not and can not build cues in a traditional manner without the use of this technology. Than there is the price, what kills me is that many of these individuals expect to be paid as much for their work as the few traditional cue makers who build their products by hand, which to me is a JOKE and very LAUGHABLE!!!!!!
For those wishing to purchase Custom made collectors cue, a little research will show you where to spend your money, I mean this is not rocket science. To a man, the Traditional Custom Cue makers are the ones who have the long never ending waiting lists, with few exceptions, not the so called Artists with a flare for computers technology.
Sorry if I have offended anyone, these are my opinions!!!!!!
Have a nice day!!!!!
C'mon Manwon...with respect, imo your statements are truly misguided and are the ones that are as you put it "a JOKE and very LAUGHABLE!!!!!!".... by your standard these makers do not make "custom" cues........
Richard Black
Dennis Searing
Joel Herceck
Bill Stroud,
Ernie Gutierrez
Tony Sciannella
Bob Manzino
Jerry Mcworter
Keith Josey
Leonard Bludworth
Thomas Wayne
Marcus Dienst
Tad Kohara
Richard Chudy
Bob Runde
Paul Drexler
Paul Mottey
James White
Tim Scruggs
Joe Gold
Mike Bender
...........among many others and some that i won't say that would FLOOR you to know use CNC technology in some ways to make a better product...........
as far as you're CNC statement......a machine is a machine is a machine imo. name one maker who doesn't use a machine of sorts to make their cues??? you mention the use of a Pantograph as an "allowed" machine to use, well, FYI, a Pantograph does basically the same thing as a milling machine fastened with electronic motors utilizing CNC technology. the patterns made for a Pantograph have been mostly made by CNC controlled machines for some time and are like the files programed and controlled by the motors of machine using the CNC acting as the "hands". they both use the same cutters and even use the same spindles. the only difference is a CNC milling machine will utilize the technology for more accurate, intricate, as well error forgiving work. again, there is NO maker who doesn't make their cues by hand, PERIOD. they all, including you, use their hands and various machinery to produce their product. i also love your statement, this was funny, "These people use the latest technology / computer driven machinery to create cues very quickly and to make some very intricate designs. While these cues are mostly very sound, they are not truly custom, because with the flip of a switch and the loading of a computer program that same design can be exactly duplicated." this statement reeks as clueless to what it takes to be able to use this technology. to bulk not just anyone but everyone into your statement who use it, is reckless and ignorant to the art of machining of any kind. as far as your "waiting list" comment that is just as far off as the others.
sorry if i've offended you with my knowledge and not my opinion.
have even a better day!!
skins said:
You have not offended me in anyway opinions are like A$$HOLES you can find them in many places and not all of them are Computer Programers. I am also sorry if I struck a nerve, but if the shoe fits wear it Sweet Heart.
So please do not get your bowels in an up roar, that may be messy!!!!!!!
You have a even better better day, and please stay between the lines, oh and by the way do not stop to quickly you may get a brown nose from all that knowledge.
manwon said:You have not offended me in anyway opinions are like A$$HOLES you can find them in many places and not all of them are Computer Programers. I am also sorry if I struck a nerve, but if the shoe fits wear it Sweet Heart.
So please do not get your bowels in an up roar, that may be messy!!!!!!!
You have a even better better day, and please stay between the lines, oh and by the way do not stop to quickly you may get a brown nose from all that knowledge.
that's just about what i thought you'd say............
By this standard, TaiCan in Taiwan is a custom cuemaker (CNC), same as Falcon, same as.....skins said:
The guy who programmed Keith's CNC machine was the same guy who used to program Dan Breggin's machine (Colorado Cues). There are a few guys who program their own machines, otherwise most cuemakers buy their designs. Hardly seems "custom" to me.
manwon said:You have not offended me in anyway opinions are like A$$HOLES you can find them in many places and not all of them are Computer Programers. I am also sorry if I struck a nerve, but if the shoe fits wear it Sweet Heart.
So please do not get your bowels in an up roar, that may be messy!!!!!!!
You have a even better better day, and please stay between the lines, oh and by the way do not stop to quickly you may get a brown nose from all that knowledge.
Skins will come to the defense of CNC, because it's what he builds with Keith. Do I think that technology has changed cuemaking? Sure, it has. Here's my problem with CNC. People charge as if the work is still being done by hand. If the machine makes you faster and more precise, that should be reflected in the pricetag of the cue. If you're handcutting points and doing inlay work with the pantograph, there's more man hours involved. With CNC, your most valuable employee is a computer.
If you build CNC inlaid cues, you should consider yourself a custom/production house. You are a Joss, Viking, Pechauer. You offer your designs, same as them. They do custom, you do custom. If the machine does more work on the cue than you, you're not the cuemaker.
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I'd like to know, aside from snob appeal, what a custom cuemaker does that a production house doesn't. I think the only deciding factor as of late has to do with volume of production. For instance, seeing as skins is involved in this, what does Keith do that Schon doesn't? Seems to me that most custom cuemakers don't do much custom work at all. They build cues their way, the same as any other manufacturer. They have their designs, same as Viking or Joss. You can get your cue tapered or weighted by any reputable cuemaker, whether it's Joss or Hercek.
Here's the difference - no one's ego has ever been stroked when someone admires their $400 Joss. But, when it's a $1000 Josey (with the same number of inlays and "man hours"), then it's impressive.
I got rid of every custom cue I owned a few years back when I discovered that NONE of them are any better than a great quality production cue like Joss or Schon or McDermott. You're merely paying for snob appeal or pride of ownership. There's nothing mystical about the play of a custom cue. A Josey or a Southwest will not turn a B player into an A player. Customs do not play any better than production. They're made with the exact same machines, made with the same techniques. The custom cuemakers "magical pixie dust" doesn't exist.
Here's the difference - no one's ego has ever been stroked when someone admires their $400 Joss. But, when it's a $1000 Josey (with the same number of inlays and "man hours"), then it's impressive.
I got rid of every custom cue I owned a few years back when I discovered that NONE of them are any better than a great quality production cue like Joss or Schon or McDermott. You're merely paying for snob appeal or pride of ownership. There's nothing mystical about the play of a custom cue. A Josey or a Southwest will not turn a B player into an A player. Customs do not play any better than production. They're made with the exact same machines, made with the same techniques. The custom cuemakers "magical pixie dust" doesn't exist.
Shawn Armstrong said:
Tap Tap Tap!! I totally agree, But not to worry, Skins will always have someone to pay for his services.
In reality I can understand why he defends CNC equipment the way he has here. I think your comparison is right on, I would even bet he is secretly making designs for John Barton!!!! and Kao Kao!!!!!!! wow, I suppose the cat is out of the bag.
Custom cues by Bill Gates. I can hardly wait.manwon said:Tap Tap Tap!! I totally agree, But not to worry, Skins will always have someone to pay for his services.
In reality I can understand why he defends CNC equipment the way he has here. I think your comparison is right on, I would even bet he is secretly making designs for John Barton!!!! and Kao Kao!!!!!!! wow, I suppose the cat is out of the bag.