Why current cue games became popular and not the others?

rrrrr said:

Does anyone has information about why we play 9-ball and not some other games no one heard about? Were there semi-popular alternatives a century ago?

I've heard one idea was - because of the gambling, meaning the more people wanted to bet on this particular game - the more popular it became.

This, however, is quite unsettling, because gambling makes more sense if the outcome is less predictable, meaning that games that became more popular had more luck element in it.

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9-ball and 1p have traditionally been the action games and 14.1 the championship tournament game. 9-ball is quick and played in its original roll-out rules format was a great gambling game. Not as much luck as you'd think. The old games like kelly pool, etc just died off. BTW, why would any gambling game be "unsettling" as you put it???

No game will ever have a zero luck element
Why are some more popular than others? That's simple.
The masses enjoy simple things
Simple music that's catchy
There's nothing wrong with it , just human nature.i like very technical music as well as simple stuff.
It's why more people know acdc than vinnie moore.
Vinnie a virtuoso of a player will never be as popular as back in black.
Same goes for billiards, the more simple or quick the more popular.
Me personally I don't think there is a billiard game I won't play or enjoy.

rrrrr said:

Does anyone has information about why we play 9-ball and not some other games no one heard about? Were there semi-popular alternatives a century ago?

I've heard one idea was - because of the gambling, meaning the more people wanted to bet on this particular game - the more popular it became.

This, however, is quite unsettling, because gambling makes more sense if the outcome is less predictable, meaning that games that became more popular had more luck element in it.

Click to expand...

Recreationally, the pool games that survived are the ones people enjoy playing the most, and eight ball is certainly at the top of the list. Right now, we live in a world where 8-ball and 9-ball are the only games with a really big following among most pool players. There are other great games, but the rest are what I'd call fringe games.

Nine ball replaced straight pool as the primary competitive game because it's easier to follow, has more pace, and doesn't require the calling of shots, which was always a big negative for the onlooking fan. Of course, the "two shot shootout" version of nine ball was barely watchable for the typical fan (this one included) and was quickly replaced by the far more watchable Texas Express version, which largely eliminated mid-rack pushouts and the spotting of balls, and caused the pace to be picked up. Some feel 8-ball is more watchable, and the IPT tried to reestablish it as the pro game in 2006, but others, Irving Crane once among them, suggested that 8-ball is not a sufficiently difficult test of skill at the pro level.

I do not agree that the gamblers, who make up just a tiny fraction of pool players, have had much influence on what games get played. I agree with those who suggest that gamblers are looking for games with smaller elements of chance, but in the end, the gamblers play the games at which they believe money can be made. For some, this means playing opposite handed or even one-handed, but the gamblers play whatever it takes to make money, which makes sense.

Though it is not pool, snooker is the most watchable cue sport. Red-color-red-color, etc. until there are no reds left and then the colors in rotation is so simple to follow that my grandmother was still watching snooker into her late 80s. The reds don't look like the colors and each of the colors remains in the same spot for much of the game. Unlike pool fans, snooker fans never struggle to locate or identify the next ball and don't bicker about the color or resolution of the numbers on the balls.

Take a bow for an interesting thread topic, for there are many elements in the evolution of the games and their popularity in pool, making it a good subject for debate.

Depends where. The world’s most popular Game is Chinese 8 ball. Not that much gambling.

The most commercially successful is Snooker...most skilled.

Why Russian Pyramid? English blackball? Honduran Rotation? Brazilian Sinuca?

Where I play it’s 75% American 8 ball. 10% Snooker. I play in a variety of settings and nobody I know gambles. 9 ball is limited to a few experienced players and the odd tournament.. 8 ball is the default ‘pool’.

...gotta be a distinction though on the gambling part,
the hustle vs. the organized play of the best that's staged much like a horse race.

American 4Ball was big a century ago, don't confuse that with the new world version though.

Seems like the Olympics' have a lock on the games that are for the most part predictable,
luck just isn't available for boat rowing, a big steel ball throw, dancing on ice and well...
I think there's a couple of other games they promote.
With crow-kay and billiards not getting the nod for the next big event,
seem to me that billiards and crow-kay are now fair game?
I suppose that's why the big event is only worthy once every 4 years.
I can't figure it out...

Dan_B said:

...gotta be a distinction though on the gambling part,
the hustle vs. the organized play of the best that's staged much like a horse race.

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Can't say I've ever seen a hustler horse racing at a bar or a horse race where gambling wasn't the catalyst so...

Dan_B said:

I can't figure it out...

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The Olympics _WAS_ supposed to be open to any competition of athletes, nothing else. Now billiard players are not athletes, although after seeing some of the games in there already, you're questioning definitely has justification.

But put all eyes on the term "athlete" for a second. I believe it was in 1988 that skateboarding was denied entry when many, many people advocated for it. Now, fine to that, but also that same year professional skateboarding had not only 3x as many injuries as _ALL_ other competitions in the Olympics but, it also had 6x more deaths!!! So what defines and makes an athletic competition in the eyes of the Olympic committee may never be understood... or, is it elitist like horse racing?

Cron said:

Can't say I've ever seen a hustler horse racing at a bar or a horse race where gambling wasn't the catalyst so...



The Olympics _WAS_ supposed to be open to any competition of athletes, nothing else. Now billiard players are not athletes, although after seeing some of the games in there already, you're questioning definitely has justification.

But put all eyes on the term "athlete" for a second. I believe it was in 1988 that skateboarding was denied entry when many, many people advocated for it. Now, fine to that, but also that same year professional skateboarding had not only 3x as many injuries as _ALL_ other competitions in the Olympics but, it also had 6x more deaths!!! So what defines and makes an athletic competition in the eyes of the Olympic committee may never be understood... or, is it elitist like horse racing?

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Sports petition to enter the Olympics. Think of it like the UN. The UN doesn’t run countries...they just expect a government to be the legitimate representation of some territory.

Billiards doesn’t have any one organization representing it and determining the rules, etiquette, ethics, standards, competition, qualification, funding, etc. The closest would be Snooker. However, another stipulation is there should be participation from a reasonable number of countries and be competitive among countries.

People often claim there are some questionable sports in the Olympics. The reason they stay is because they are well organized and don’t demand much. Their sports organization often has deep pockets and is efficient ( example being Equestrian).

♪ How many roads must a man walk down...♪

Cron said:

Can't say I've ever seen a hustler horse racing at a bar or a horse race where gambling wasn't the catalyst so...



The Olympics _WAS_ supposed to be open to any competition of athletes, nothing else. Now billiard players are not athletes, although after seeing some of the games in there already, you're questioning definitely has justification.

But put all eyes on the term "athlete" for a second. I believe it was in 1988 that skateboarding was denied entry when many, many people advocated for it. Now, fine to that, but also that same year professional skateboarding had not only 3x as many injuries as _ALL_ other competitions in the Olympics but, it also had 6x more deaths!!! So what defines and makes an athletic competition in the eyes of the Olympic committee may never be understood... or, is it elitist like horse racing?

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..oh' yeah, big time on the ego, could be the same way with billiards, staged right.

Like the famed farm / stable owners it takes some nurturing, rooms in time, if not
now like Gold Crown, Fargo, Freezer, West Coast and alike would have there stable
of players coming to the park much in the same model, session, as the track with a
little longer session than the traditional track schedule.

It would be seasonal with different meets with over-lapping dates,
keeps the odds playing unique, with the closing dates giving preference to the
strength of the field, with some room for the well spirted coming up just short,
kind of a finale for the season.

It would jell in the path of least resistance for the locations, accommodation's.

I know I missed mentioned a lot of great rooms/stables, they'll show.

rrrrr said:

Does anyone has information about why we play 9-ball and not some other games no one heard about? Were there semi-popular alternatives a century ago?

I've heard one idea was - because of the gambling, meaning the more people wanted to bet on this particular game - the more popular it became.

This, however, is quite unsettling, because gambling makes more sense if the outcome is less predictable, meaning that games that became more popular had more luck element in it.

Click to expand...

It is because fast games are good for TV, this is how ESPN labelled it and it started in the 90's.

Also, think about it, people want faster games, quick games are the way to go for viewership when it comes for people who don't play pool, besides 9ball rules are very simple, which is why on TV you can list the rules in just three lines, that's how it became popular.

Has nothing to do with gambling imo.

asbani said:

It is because fast games are good for TV, this is how ESPN labelled it and it started in the 90's.

Also, think about it, people want faster games, quick games are the way to go for viewership when it comes for people who don't play pool, besides 9ball rules are very simple, which is why on TV you can list the rules in just three lines, that's how it became popular.

Has nothing to do with gambling imo.

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9-ball was very popular waaaaaay before ESPN ever showed one game of it. Its kinda like pool's version of throwing dice, the games are quick and exciting.

garczar said:

9-ball was very popular waaaaaay before ESPN ever showed one game of it. Its kinda like pool's version of throwing dice, the games are quick and exciting.

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So, if what you say is correct::

Why do people watch Poker and don't watch Craps ??

rrrrr said:

Does anyone has information about why we play 9-ball and not some other games no one heard about? Were there semi-popular alternatives a century ago?

I've heard one idea was - because of the gambling, meaning the more people wanted to bet on this particular game - the more popular it became.

This, however, is quite unsettling, because gambling makes more sense if the outcome is less predictable, meaning that games that became more popular had more luck element in it.

Click to expand...

14.1 was the dominant game, much more so than 9 ball. Look at The Hustler, it was 14.1 they played as the main game. It started to change toward the 70s and for sure 80s since that is the game that started to be shown on TV and was much faster to win/loose and a more exiting game to watch.

MitchAlsup said:

So, if what you say is correct::

Why do people watch Poker and don't watch Craps ??

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I was referring to the speed of the game. 9ball has a speed and rhythm to it that makes it great for action. You're not bogged down in one long, drawn out game like some others.