BCA organization

C

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
PETROBOY said:
What does the BCA do? I thought they were the governing body over pool why are they not doing the job? How did we let them get to this point? I think that we need a governing body that all pro tournaments fall under and follow those rules and race sizes we need to have some structure like other sports no matter what game we play even bonus ball.
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You post has some merits, and you ideas have been discussed before. IMHO one of the major problem plaguing both AMATEUR, and PROFESSIONAL Pool is too many organization each like a Big Fish, each with their Own Little Pond.

None of the Big Fish apparently see the strength in combining force with one another for the good of the sport.

Example is in the Phoenix Metro Area the last time I checked we had BCAPL, APA, ACL, Arizona 8 Ball League, TAP, and several others each trying to draw the league placer to their league name brand league.

It is said their is strength in numbers, and if all pool was under one organization, it would make attracting sponsor, and advertiser easier with the huge audience of all the league, and recreational placers.

JMHO.




 
V

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CocoboloCowboy said:
You post has some merits, and you ideas have been discussed before. IMHO one of the major problem plaguing both AMATEUR, and PROFESSIONAL Pool is too many organization each like a Big Fish, each with their Own Little Pond.

None of the Big Fish apparently see the strength in combining force with one another for the good of the sport.

Example is in the Phoenix Metro Area the last time I checked we had BCAPL, APA, ACL, Arizona 8 Ball League, TAP, and several others each trying to draw the league placer to their league name brand league.

It is said their is strength in numbers, and if all pool was under one organization, it would make attracting sponsor, and advertiser easier with the huge audience of all the league, and recreational placers.

JMHO.
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This is typical in almost every sport/game. There are always a ton of organizations. Eventually one rises to the top and takes over. UFC, MLB, NBA, NFL, etc.

Pool unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) has yet to have one rise significantly over the others in such a way to "unify" pool.
 
cajunfats

cajunfats

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
logic

Scott Lee said:
Carl...You simply MUST stop posting logical statements! How will Petroboy be able to come to any 'logical' conclusions with the facts that you have stated? Please quit trying to confuse people with pesky facts! LOL

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Hahaha, Thanks, Scott. I apologize about my confusing things. However, you can be thankful I was very brief in my post! I have been known to be rather,...long winded at explaining things! LOL.
 
Donny Lutz

Donny Lutz

Ferrule Cat
Silver Member
BCA history

vapoolplayer said:
LOL.....now you're just trying to be technical. Those leagues are the dominant forces in their respective sports. Everyone in the world who plays those sports wants to be in those leagues.

Most rules that anyone playing those sports are based on the rules used by those leagues.

While they may not be "official" governing bodies, for all intents and purproses they are the dominant force in their respective sport.

The BCA will never be able to just "get tournament directors on board" and get them to agree to let the BCA regulate them. There isn't any incentive for directors to do this, otherwise it would already be done.

If the BCA or any other organization wants to "regulate" pool, they will have to form their own tournament circuit, promote it, and be successful enough at it where they can leverage players to play in their league under contract. This is how it works everywhere.

The "bonus ball" league is currently in the early stages of attempting this, how successful they will be is a debate for another thread, but they are attempting to start something like this.
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The BCA began, I believe in 1948, and assumed the title, "Governing Body of Pool", because no one else was doing much. They ran great pro tournaments for years, and then began to create their league system in the late '70s.

I don't think they ever wanted or planned to control all tournaments or leagues. There were far too many of both for this to be feasible. They did encourage local and regional tournaments to join the BCA and take part in qualifiers for their national events.

What I like about the BCA is that they listen to players, and along with the VNEA, have always worked to improve their rules. They, like me, went for the idea of Standardized Rules. I also like that they encourage league and tournament directors to use their rules and format, but they don't demand it. You must, of course, play by their rules at national events. I've always felt that they (and others) put the game first, and profit second.
I do wish they'd update their Rules Book to include changes they've made in their rules.

When comparing league systems, etc., keep in mind that the NPBA, BCA, VNEA, TAP, ACS, and the others have never had the huge amounts of money to promote themselves as has the APA.
 
V

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Donny Lutz said:
When comparing league systems, etc., keep in mind that the NPBA, BCA, VNEA, TAP, ACS, and the others have never had the huge amounts of money to promote themselves as has the APA.
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And why is that?

Interesting thought.......since there are already tons of people playing APA....I wonder if viewers would be interested to see a "pro" APA type of league. Pros play at varying speeds. I wonder since amateurs are so used to league format if they would be interested in watch PRO X give PRO Y games on the wire or points on the wire handicap?
 
Keith Jawahir

Keith Jawahir

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I actually decided to write a college point paper on why pool isn't more popular, despite the fact that EVERYONE plays, regardless of how well they do. This thread is actually full of the exact information that I'm formulating my points around:

-the industry is too fragmented in America, as compared to the rest of the world. The sad reality of it, in my opinion, is BECAUSE this is America, land of the greedy. good example: leagues.

-people watch (cue sports) in other countries. otherwise the arenas for the mosconi cup and world championships would be empty.

-money. greed. wash, rinse, repeat.

ok, now i'll insert my 2 cents to get some more opinions.

-Leagues. why are there so many? obviously people are joining them, so it's successful. but apparently every tom, dick, and harry wants to make money off of it, by starting his own. I've met Tony Robles a couple of times and like anyone else who knows that he exists, I have a ton of respect for him. Why do we have pros like him and Corey deuel running their own separate leagues instead of operating a regional one under a greater governing body? maybe i'm just crazy, but it seems to me like there are high level players all over the country, and everybody can benefit if they contribute back to the game in coaching local players, thereby promoting the sport, leading to higher exposure, leading to sponsors, leading to more money, which will promote the sport even further, etc. (I'm probably completely wrong, and I'm open to any corrections to flaws in my thinking)

-I've noticed that there's no shortage of pool streams to watch. Derby made this obvious. there's InsidePool, Accustats, POV pool, and more that I don't even know about. Even TAR was getting in on it at some point. again, why not keep all of that, maybe even do something regional or allow pool rooms to pay to stream their weekly tournaments or subscribe to big events, and have one governing body overseeing all of that?

Like I said, I could be completely out to lunch. if you're gonna hate, I ask that you at least do it respectfully and have something constructive to respond with.
 
V

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Keith Jawahir said:
I actually decided to write a college point paper on why pool isn't more popular, despite the fact that EVERYONE plays, regardless of how well they do. This thread is actually full of the exact information that I'm formulating my points around:

-the industry is too fragmented in America, as compared to the rest of the world. The sad reality of it, in my opinion, is BECAUSE this is America, land of the greedy. good example: leagues.

-people watch (cue sports) in other countries. otherwise the arenas for the mosconi cup and world championships would be empty.

-money. greed. wash, rinse, repeat.

ok, now i'll insert my 2 cents to get some more opinions.

-Leagues. why are there so many? obviously people are joining them, so it's successful. but apparently every tom, dick, and harry wants to make money off of it, by starting his own. I've met Tony Robles a couple of times and like anyone else who knows that he exists, I have a ton of respect for him. Why do we have pros like him and Corey deuel running their own separate leagues instead of operating a regional one under a greater governing body? maybe i'm just crazy, but it seems to me like there are high level players all over the country, and everybody can benefit if they contribute back to the game in coaching local players, thereby promoting the sport, leading to higher exposure, leading to sponsors, leading to more money, which will promote the sport even further, etc. (I'm probably completely wrong, and I'm open to any corrections to flaws in my thinking)

-I've noticed that there's no shortage of pool streams to watch. Derby made this obvious. there's InsidePool, Accustats, POV pool, and more that I don't even know about. Even TAR was getting in on it at some point. again, why not keep all of that, maybe even do something regional or allow pool rooms to pay to stream their weekly tournaments or subscribe to big events, and have one governing body overseeing all of that?

Like I said, I could be completely out to lunch. if you're gonna hate, I ask that you at least do it respectfully and have something constructive to respond with.
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Again, this is common in ALL sports/games. Research the history of MLB, NBA, UFC, NHL, NFL, etc.

They all had several or more competitors just as "greedy" as pool league owners.

Eventually one rises to the top and the others go out of business, or even though they still exist and make profit enough for the owners to survive, they are not on the radar.

Pool will either follow this history of other sports/games, or it won't.

Saying "everyone stop being greedy and fall under one banner" will never work, and actually, its because of "greed" that the other sports above became so big.

My opinion......make more leagues, make more tournaments, everyone try to make money and promote pool. If one or a few get big enough to bring in big sponsorship(doubtful) then great.
 
V

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Also, everyone saying "exposure, exposure, exposure" I just don't get. Over 30 million people get on a pool table every year. Exposure isn't the problem obviously.
 
Keith Jawahir

Keith Jawahir

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
that's what boggles my mind. millions of people play it, yet it is where it is. It's not like people don't want to get more into it, my friends ask me to teach them all the time. My question is, how do you use that to benefit the sport on a larger level?
 
V

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Keith Jawahir said:
that's what boggles my mind. millions of people play it, yet it is where it is. It's not like people don't want to get more into it, my friends ask me to teach them all the time. My question is, how do you use that to benefit the sport on a larger level?
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People like to PLAY pool, they don't like to WATCH pool.

The way things get big is:

People watch a sport

Sport goes to sponsors and says "i get X amount of viewers, pay me X amount to advertise" or the sponsor realizes sport gets X amount of viewers and approaches the owners.

Bottom line: get people who play pool interested in WATCHING pool, and you'd be a millionaire. Thus far no one has been able to figure out how to do this.

(honestly i don't think it can be done with pool)
 
cardiac kid

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
vapoolplayer said:
People like to PLAY pool, they don't like to WATCH pool.

The way things get big is:

People watch a sport

Sport goes to sponsors and says "i get X amount of viewers, pay me X amount to advertise" or the sponsor realizes sport gets X amount of viewers and approaches the owners.

Bottom line: get people who play pool interested in WATCHING pool, and you'd be a millionaire. Thus far no one has been able to figure out how to do this.

(honestly i don't think it can be done with pool)
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That's me! Love the game of pool. Absolutely love to play pool. Hate to watch pool. If I can not be on the table playing I don't want to watch the other person shoot. Must be the poster child for what many consider to be the game of pool's major problem attracting sponsors!

Lyn
 
V

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cardiac kid said:
That's me! Love the game of pool. Absolutely love to play pool. Hate to watch pool. If I can not be on the table playing I don't want to watch the other person shoot. Must be the poster child for what many consider to be the game of pool's major problem attracting sponsors!

Lyn
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Ironically the amount of people who play pool and the ease of accessibility to play pool may actually be what keeps pool from being a spectator sport.

Its much easier for someone to find a pool hall or join a pool league as an adult than to find a baseball or football league to play in. So their "need" for the sport/game is met while playing pool, negating the desire to watch pool when they aren't playing. Conversely its much harder for them(maybe not hard, but takes more effort) to play popular sports. Combined with the fact those sports require organizing a large team that works well together vs pool teams which still feel "single player" based, makes it much easier for someone to get their sports fix for these games by spectatorship.

When you start to seriously think about the "problems" pool has, you start to go in a vicious circle that just leaves you in a loop that brings you back to the same starting point.
 
Keith Jawahir

Keith Jawahir

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There was a thread on here about the quality of commentary on streams. Even though you hate watching pool, do you think that if there was QUALITY commentary(ie, you can learn from a knowledgeable commentator), you would be more inclined to watch?
 
V

vapoolplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Keith Jawahir said:
There was a thread on here about the quality of commentary on streams. Even though you hate watching pool, do you think that if there was QUALITY commentary(ie, you can learn from a knowledgeable commentator), you would be more inclined to watch?
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Personally, No. I can't speak for anyone else though.

I'd like to see someone like Joe Rogan do the color side with a good play by play guy like Dr. Bill.

But I don't think that would actually make a huge difference in spectatorship.
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Joe Rogan did color commentary for the Professional Cue Sports Association

vapoolplayer said:
Personally, No. I can't speak for anyone else though.

I'd like to see someone like Joe Rogan do the color side with a good play by play guy like Dr. Bill.

But I don't think that would actually make a huge difference in spectatorship.
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Joe Rogan did color commentary for the Professional Cue Sports Association, (he was terrific, I still have the tape) and also the BCA gave PCA $25,000 a year to run the office, is this still available in the form of a grant for a professional organization?

Also, the BCA ran commercials promoting pool on ESPN, and I haven't seen one of those in years. What is the advertising/marketing budget for promoting pool these days? I'm sure someone has that information, the BCA is a non profit organization with a mission statement to promote pool to the mass public for the betterment of the game (I'm just paraphrasing a guess ;) ).

I could also guess that the total money spent at the Derby (by everyone involved, including all expenses minus prize money {net-390,000}) would have financed a televised pool show every week for 13 weeks.

 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
There seems to be some confusion. I believe the OP is asking about the BCA or Billiard Congress of America. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the BCAPL that is under the CSI umbrella owned by Mark Griffin.

The BCA pool league was started by the BCA but was bought by Mr. Griffin years ago. Since then the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) has had absolutely no affiliation with the BCAPL pool league nor does it run any other leagues.

As far as rules go, the BCAPL has it's own rule book that governs league and league tournament play. It also the rule set used for just about any event that CSI operates, which include the US Open 10 Ball/8 Ball/One Pocket Championships. The BCA (Billiard Congress) has adopted the WPA World Standardized Rules as the official rules. The WPA rules are the defacto recognized official rules, supposedly similar to the official rules of golf. Of course, the pool world is not nearly as unified under a single set of rules as the game of golf is.
 
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