AzBilliards.com Back Hand English (BHE) - Resource Thread
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 Back Hand English (BHE) - Resource Thread

(#2)
Colin Colenso
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09-07-2015, 04:10 AM

Estimating the Squerve Pivot Point for Various Shots

If P represents the length of one's Pure Pivot Point, and S represents the Squerve Pivot Point Length,
the we can create a formula like:
S = P + GX
Where GX is a length of pivot change which reduces the cue angle for a given pivot, which cancels out the change in CB direction due to swerve. G is a Grip Factor and X is a number arrived at based on a combination of shot speed and distance from CB to OB.

Roughly, X = Length in feet / Speed of Shot (1 is very slow, 6 is very hard), such that, for a 6 foot shot at low speed of 1, X = 6 inches, to add to your bridge length beyond the PPP.
G is 1 for a very slick table and 2 for a very grippy table.

On a 3 foot shot at medium speed on a slick table, X will be 3/3.5 x 1 = approx 1 inch. On a very grippy table 2 inches would be needed.

Here is a visual representation for how the Squerve Pivot Point varies for a cue with a 9.5 inch PPP, from fast to slow shots from 1 to 8 feet between CB and OB.

Now, before people start to panic, let me tell you that I never perform these calculations. They are more of a guide to understand the variables and how they work together. One could however, do testing and tweak this formula to make it highly accurate.

I pretty much know by experience now how much to length my bridge to compensate for swerve on various shots, much the same way as experienced players learn to estimate how much to alter their aim to adjust for swerve.

The strength to using bridge length as a means of swerve adjustment is that there doesn't appear to be significant difference between hitting 1/4 tip of 1.5 tips offset. Comparatively, if using the traditional method and not bridging near to this squerve pivot point, then variation in tip offset will change the CB direction a little, introducing an unneeded variable to worry about.

As I've stated earlier, for maybe 90% of shots I play using BHE, I can bridge within an inch or two of my Pure Pivot Point and on most shots, if I'm being a bit lazy with bridge placement, there is enough margin of error to still make the pot. We tend not to choose long slow shots with side anyway, but they do come up and with a few experiments, you'll get to know how long to set your pivot to get pretty close.

And example is the snooker break and the long safeties in that game, which are generally shot at a similar speed over 9 or 10 feet. After a couple of attempts, I can establish that I need to pivot at about 5 inches behind my pure pivot point to achieve my squerve pivot point. This will vary a bit with grip conditions. I'll add an inch or so when hitting a bit softer and shorten it an inch or two if playing it harder.

On a super slow shot over a large distance, a shot one may never choose to play, doubling of the Pure Point Distance will be about as long as you'd ever need to go.

Personally I think a 12 inch pure pivot point is a good choice. It's enough of a bridge length to satisfy a power shot and short enough such that the Squerve Pivot Point will rarely exceed 16 inches. On a super low squirt cue, say a predator z2, which from what I know has a pivot point around 16 inches, this can be awkwardly long for accurate power stroking, not to mention that it will send the Squerve Pivot Point beyond 20 inches, especially on grippy tables, which makes BHE on those shots impractical.

FWIW, my preferred playing cue is about 12mm with a pivot point close to 12 inches. I used to use a 13mm tip diameter cue with about a 9 inch Pure Pivot Point and I felt it hindered a smooth stroke when power was required. A shorter pivot point also has less margin for error in bridge placement.

Here are a list of the major things to be aware of when adjusting aim or bridge length for throw.
1. A sliding CB (stun type shot) has significant thickening throw, especially at slow speeds. Avoid using it on cuts finer than 10 degrees unless applying gearing outside, lots of inside with at least medium speed or hitting it hard.
2. Avoid heavy outside english, especially on softer shots. Try to stay near to the gearing amount, which varies from about 1/8 tip to 1/2 tip from near straight to fine cuts. As the pot gets thinner, you can get away with a little more OE tip offset without diving into the highly variable zone from 1/2 to 1 tip. One shot that is a bit more controllable is hitting very hard with near maximum OE. At high speeds, the thinning throw begins to diminish significantly with wider tip offset. If you must hit heavy outside at lower and medium speeds, practice the aim adjustments, they can be quite large, up to 5 inches per yard of travel on softer shots with about 80% tip offset.
3. On fuller angles 7/8 and thicker, doubling the corner or drawing back with inside english, expect about 2-3 inches thickening throw per yard. This decreases as speed increases, so often, harder is better.
4. The throw for inside english, when used with more than 50% offset on all non-near full angles needs no aim adjustment. Also, when rolling pots in medium speed, getting unintentional inside will not significantly effect the pot angle, but a touch of outside can, so be careful not to swoop to the outside when playing rolling pots.
5. Hard draw and follow will thin the shot a little, if one gets used to aligning their aim as if using medium-firm follow.

Unless I've forgotten some thing, these general rules should get you going with knowing when you may need to adjust for throw and when it's not necessary.

To know the amount of throw variation on the various shots, you'll need to practice them to be able to make an educated guess, but I do have visual charts which make easier to see the magnitude of angle adjustments for all variations of spin, 5 speed levels from slow to hard shots and cut angles of full, 7/8ths, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8. It's worth studying these charts, whether you're using them for BHE adjustment of traditional aiming adjustment. They indicate amount of throw in color bands going from thinning throw to thickening throw.

I will post these charts later, as they are not on this computer. Here's one that I've posted here before:

This is for the 7/8th cut angle, cutting right to left, so the right side represents throw with outside english and the left side with inside. Top left image is slow (imagine the CB travels 1 table length). Bottom left image is very firm, getting near to break speed. The color bands represent differences of 1 inch per yard of throw. The white zone is where we ought to be choosing our shots from, because getting these spins means there is less than 1/2 inch of throw variation per yard compared to a medium firm rolling pot.

And here is a single chart with some explanations added...

Quote:
 "The first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - Lord Kelvin

Last edited by Colin Colenso; 09-07-2015 at 08:35 AM.

 (#3) ENGLISH! Banned   Status: Offline Posts: 19,489 vCash: 500 iTrader: 1 / 100% Blog Entries: 1 Join Date: Jun 2012 09-07-2015, 07:27 AM Goodey Colin, The following is an except from your OP. I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around that. Is it written with an Australian Accent. When would we not have to adjust our aim for squirt, even if swerve was not of much consideration? I've not yet had coffee yet as it's brewing so that could be my problem. "The main power of BHE, in my opinion, is for shots where swerve is not highly significant, where we can forget about having to adjust our aim for squirt (CB deflection). Shots with significant english, that had previously troubled us, become as easy as making the same shot with straight follow." Thanks in advance for help. PS I'm not sure this is the proper sub forum for this as it is not really about aiming. Perhaps the Instructor Forum would be more appropriate,
(#4)
Patrick Johnson
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09-07-2015, 08:05 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ENGLISH! When would we not have to adjust our aim for squirt, even if swerve was not of much consideration?
When BHE adjusts it automatically. That's what BHE is for.

Quote:
 ...it is not really about aiming.
Squirt/swerve are factors in aiming.

pj
chgo

(#5)
Colin Colenso
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09-07-2015, 08:50 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ENGLISH! Goodey Colin, The following is an except from your OP. I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around that. Is it written with an Australian Accent. When would we not have to adjust our aim for squirt, even if swerve was not of much consideration? I've not yet had coffee yet as it's brewing so that could be my problem. "The main power of BHE, in my opinion, is for shots where swerve is not highly significant, where we can forget about having to adjust our aim for squirt (CB deflection). Shots with significant english, that had previously troubled us, become as easy as making the same shot with straight follow." Thanks in advance for help. PS I'm not sure this is the proper sub forum for this as it is not really about aiming. Perhaps the Instructor Forum would be more appropriate,
I've structured that sentence a bit awkwardly, basically it's saying the BHE's biggest strength is allowing us to play with more tip offset, more easily, especially on shots where swerve is not a big issue.

Colin

Quote:
 "The first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - Lord Kelvin

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ENGLISH!
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09-07-2015, 09:19 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson When BHE adjusts it automatically. That's what BHE is for. Squirt/swerve are factors in aiming. pj chgo
No crap?

BHE is a method of compensating for 'squirt/swerve'.

NO... Squirt/Swerve are NOT factors in aiming when one is hitting on the center axis of the cue ball.

I have no inclination to play your games.

You have a nice Labor Day.

(#7)
ENGLISH!
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09-07-2015, 09:22 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Colin Colenso I've structured that sentence a bit awkwardly, basically it's saying the BHE's biggest strength is allowing us to play with more tip offset, more easily, especially on shots where swerve is not a big issue. Colin
Thanks Colin,

By 'where swerve is not a big issue' do you mean when the distance between the balls is rather short & there is not enough TIME for swerve to start?

Cheers.

 (#8) ENGLISH! Banned   Status: Offline Posts: 19,489 vCash: 500 iTrader: 1 / 100% Blog Entries: 1 Join Date: Jun 2012 09-07-2015, 09:25 AM Colin, I think we should clarify something before we go on with any further discussions. Is the graph below a result of actual test findings or are they theoretical? Also if true, would this not basically disprove the 1/2 tip pivot aspect of Stan's CTE? Last edited by ENGLISH!; 09-07-2015 at 09:32 AM.
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Colin Colenso
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09-07-2015, 09:45 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ENGLISH! Thanks Colin, By 'where swerve is not a big issue' do you mean when the distance between the balls is rather short & there is not enough TIME for swerve to start? Cheers.
As using any method to apply english, we avoid longer slower shots. The graph in the 2nd post shows this relationship pretty clearly. I don't mind some long shots played firm using BHE and some mid range shots, say 4 foot away with medium-firm speed, but falling outside those zones is going to be risky, for anyone, to execute pots accurately.

I didn't get your question earlier about when we do not need any compensation... naturally, center axis shots. Use them when you can I say, except be careful with the throw effects of a sliding CB at low speeds... ouch!

Off to bed very shortly.. have worn out my brain for one day.

Colin

Quote:
 "The first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - Lord Kelvin

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Colin Colenso
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09-07-2015, 09:49 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ENGLISH! Colin, I think we should clarify something before we go on with any further discussions. Is the graph below a result of actual test findings or are they theoretical? Also if true, would this not basically disprove the 1/2 tip pivot aspect of Stan's CTE?
It's an approximation based on testing. It will vary with conditions and may not be linear if done precisely, but it's a good enough guide with the margins of error involved, at least as a starting guide.

I don't see how it relates to CTE's 1/2 tip pivot in any way. This is about swerve compensation, CTE is about center axis striking.

Colin

Quote:
 "The first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - Lord Kelvin

Last edited by Colin Colenso; 09-10-2015 at 08:42 AM.

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ENGLISH!
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09-07-2015, 10:18 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Colin Colenso It's an approximation based on testing. It will vary with conditions and may not be linear if done precisely, but it's a good enough guide with the margins of error involved, at least as a starting guide. I don't see how it relates to CTE's 1/2 tip pivot in any way. This is about swerve compensation, CTE is about center axis striking. Colin
Thanks Colin.

Yeah, Your chart just fostered a 'question' about the standard 1/2 tip pivot of CTE.

But I certainly do NOT want to derail your thread. Sorry for even bringing it up.

Sleep Well.

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Patrick Johnson
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09-07-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ENGLISH! Squirt/Swerve are NOT factors in aiming when one is hitting on the center axis of the cue ball.
However, this thread is about BHE, which by definition is about hitting OFF the center axis of the cue ball, where squirt and swerve are factors in aiming. Maybe you're just in the wrong thread.

Quote:
 I have no inclination to play your games.
"Playing my games" seems to mean misunderstanding everything you read and trying to make personal issues of it. There's a simple solution: stop reading my posts. The ignore function can help you with that - or the mods will when they get tired of your antics again.

pj
chgo

 (#13) ENGLISH! Banned   Status: Offline Posts: 19,489 vCash: 500 iTrader: 1 / 100% Blog Entries: 1 Join Date: Jun 2012 09-07-2015, 11:50 AM ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ May GOD Bless you, Patrick & may you have a Nice Labor Day. Last edited by ENGLISH!; 09-07-2015 at 12:53 PM.
 (#14) Patrick Johnson Fish of the Day     Status: Offline Posts: 21,482 vCash: 1700 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Jun 2007 09-07-2015, 01:28 PM Colin, I don't use backhand English, mostly because I've always used the lowest squirt shafts, which makes BHE more awkward. But I've also wondered if it might encourage "specializing" in the kinds of shots that work most easily with it - maybe using a shorter menu of standard combinations of speed and tip offset for shots of different lengths. I'm not saying that would necessarily be a drawback - maybe even an advantage, and maybe applying equally to other squirt compensation methods. Just curious if my instinct about it is something you'd noticed. pj chgo
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09-07-2015, 01:42 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ENGLISH! Colin, I think we should clarify something before we go on with any further discussions. Is the graph below a result of actual test findings or are they theoretical? Also if true, would this not basically disprove the 1/2 tip pivot aspect of Stan's CTE?
The pivot technique for cte is different than the way you pivot for BHE. And i really just want to leave it at that. Colin has some good info here and the focus should remain on that.

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