League players vs just players

hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Had an interesting situation in a handicapped tournament recently.

During the night almost all of the good players stay at the tables and practice, setup up shots, talk about shots we missed chat about position ideas we see during a match, try out different shafts, etc...

The worse players that never seem to cash sit in a corner and complain how high their handicaps are and how the good players are too low and should give up more games. When they do "practice" they bang balls around randomly forgetting or ignoring any advice from the better players that try to help by saying "we don't have time to practice to get good like you".

One group wants to play better to win, the other group wants to win by making the better players work harder for their wins.

In short, handicapped leagues are like communism and welfare.

The funny part is that I approve of having handicaps, but if you are worse, play to get better not complain how you are not given enough of a spot to win instead of practicing.

I just found it funny seeing this, the good players playing when they are already good, and the bad players in a corner whispering about how unfair the handicaps were LOL Seems all the discussions where about league rankings not how to play better.
 
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K

Koop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yep, this is nothing new. Although I would change it from league players to serious players. I think the majority of league players would be considered "just" players. It's especially true for players who never venture out beyond their local league.
 
S

Skippy27

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I see this as well and have "set many straight" on their perception of how people should spend their time.

People that want to get better, will find a way and time to practice. Those I have no problem with. Most leagues and teams need all level players and captains and other teammates need to accept that. If you (not you particularly) expect your teammates to always want to practice and improve, then you need to adjust your mindset, not theirs. However, if they are complaining about people being better and doing nothing, then they need to be adjusted on that mind set.
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Koop said:
Yep, this is nothing new. Although I would change it from league players to serious players. I think the majority of league players would be considered "just" players. It's especially true for players who never venture out beyond their local league.
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Yes it may have been an incomplete thought in my head, I did not mean overall league players because I know some are just serious players. I am not even sure how to classify players like that, they are not really "casual" because they are involved in league play every week, and some a few times a week.

I just found they were focusing on the wrong thing, instead of spending 2 hours waiting or complaining about handicaps, learn a new shot or work on your stance or stroke instead of looking for a way to beat a better player without putting in extra effort.

Is calling them "Lazy" players OK or does that sound mean? Do we need another category here? Bangers, Casual, Lazy, Serious LOL
 
strmanglr scott

strmanglr scott

All about Focus
Silver Member
I remember when I got back into the game. I had been playing a lot by myself working on my game. I was still pretty rusty and even w out the rust my game wasn't developed much.

I got in a tourney not realizing who I was up against. It was really a top tier league player tourney.

I got my arse whipped.

It motivated me like nothing else. I practiced 15-20 hours a week. I told myself I wouldn't go back until I could break and run out at least 4 out of ten games. One night I did that and ran an entire rack exactly as planned, didn't get out of shape once. A personal victory I won't forget.

I went back to the tourney, still got beat. But I played and competed, felt great and ppl noticed my game had changed.

There's no handicap there. If you don't have game, don't put your money in until you do.

Those guys begging for a handicap, no. You know who plays here. If you can't compete you have two choices-get better or don't play. Ok, a third, if you wanna play, you know who's here so don't bit ch if/when you lose.

We have many tourneys around here. I know where I can go and have a pretty good shot at winning it and ones I'm gonna need my A game and maybe a little luck. I'll take the latter.
 
K

Koop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hang-the-9 said:
Yes it may have been an incomplete thought in my head, I did not mean overall league players because I know some are just serious players. I am not even sure how to classify players like that, they are not really "casual" because they are involved in league play every week, and some a few times a week.

I just found they were focusing on the wrong thing, instead of spending 2 hours waiting or complaining about handicaps, learn a new shot or work on your stance or stroke instead of looking for a way to beat a better player without putting in extra effort.

Is calling them "Lazy" players OK or does that sound mean? Do we need another category here? Bangers, Casual, Lazy, Serious LOL
Click to expand...

Nah, I just think the majority don't take it all that serious and it's more of a night out. Heck, I am in in the same boat at this point although I do take it a bit more seriously because of the time invested in playing.
 
easy-e

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Koop said:
Nah, I just think the majority don't take it all that serious and it's more of a night out. Heck, I am in in the same boat at this point although I do take it a bit more seriously because of the time invested in playing.
Click to expand...

You play pool the way everyone should play pool, with a smile. I don't ever care how anyone plays, but if they have a shitty attitude I wonder why they play at all.
 
K

Koop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
easy-e said:
You play pool the way everyone should play pool, with a smile. I don't ever care how anyone plays, but if they have a shitty attitude I wonder why they play at all.
Click to expand...

Same with you, my man! Always a pleasure getting in some table time with you.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perhaps the lesser- non practicing- players feel that not showing off their (lack of) proficiency keeps them more in the in-crowd than 'embarrasing' themselves in front of the 'players' would?

Not that they should feel inferior in any way other than their current skill. We all sucked once.

Easy, more than once.
 
easy-e

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Black-Balled said:
Perhaps the lesser- non practicing- players feel that not showing off their (lack of) proficiency keeps them more in the in-crowd than 'embarrasing' themselves in front of the 'players' would?

Not that they should feel inferior in any way other than their current skill. We all sucked once.

Easy, more than once.
Click to expand...

I'm still shocked you can fit that thing into bicycle shorts.
 
O

owll

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hnadicaps should always be set up so that the higher ranked player is the favorite, otherwise what is the point in getting better?

(I try to avoid playing in anything handicapped. There is too much shady stuff, and too much whining about handicaps. Im too old (and smart) to be involved in that stuff.)
 
L

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess I would fit in the lazy category lol. I never practice.. Well let me rephrase that. There have been a few times when I lost an important match due to a shot or 2 I missed I would practice that shot until it was automatic .

I will say that hang is right about most league players......hate to admit it lol. I have seen lately ...due to the fact that a few venues changed their policy and offer a couple hours free table time before league.....that quite a few show early and practice. Let me rephrase that.....banging balls. Very few actually do drills or practice shots they have trouble with..

Now even though I don't practice much I will be the first to admit it will make you a better shooter but it does not help you develop the mental toughness you need for a match.

I would like to share a story with you and will.try to make it as short as possible. I had a new guy Join my team a few sessions ago. Now this guy practiced religiously several nights a week. I dont mean bang balls. Doing all kinds of drills and the only league player I have ever seen practice cue ball control and position shots. He would lay a quarter on the table and practice 1 rail...2 rail and 3 rail and draw shots over and over until he could get the cue bal to stop at that quarter 10 times in a row. If he missed once he started over .

He was a pretty good player when he joined and the first match I saw he play I thought he could make a 6 with a little more practice.

Now as with some the better he got the bigger his ego got. Making it short. He challenged me races to 7 in 8 ..9 ..and 10 ball. I won 7-4..7-5..7-4. He still thought be was better than me...oh well . When 9 ball ltc came he lost 19-1 to a 3 and he disappeared and has not come back and never answered my calls. I guess that 3 busted his ego. What I am gettin at is all that practice did nothing to help prepare him for a lucky ass 3.

Trying to use an anology here and wish I could recall the exact words I read on here one time. Somethin like this. When asked about why he never practiced breaking boards Bruce lee replied...boards dont hit back. I guess I am trying to say when my former player did all that practicing no one was hitting back.

I guess a better analogy is ...you can run all the racks you want in your basement....dont mean nothing if you can't do it in a match.
 
inside_english

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lorider said:
I guess I would fit in the lazy category lol. I never practice.. Well let me rephrase that. There have been a few times when I lost an important match due to a shot or 2 I missed I would practice that shot until it was automatic .

I will say that hang is right about most league players......hate to admit it lol. I have seen lately ...due to the fact that a few venues changed their policy and offer a couple hours free table time before league.....that quite a few show early and practice. Let me rephrase that.....banging balls. Very few actually do drills or practice shots they have trouble with..

Now even though I don't practice much I will be the first to admit it will make you a better shooter but it does not help you develop the mental toughness you need for a match.

I would like to share a story with you and will.try to make it as short as possible. I had a new guy Join my team a few sessions ago. Now this guy practiced religiously several nights a week. I dont mean bang balls. Doing all kinds of drills and the only league player I have ever seen practice cue ball control and position shots. He would lay a quarter on the table and practice 1 rail...2 rail and 3 rail and draw shots over and over until he could get the cue bal to stop at that quarter 10 times in a row. If he missed once he started over .

He was a pretty good player when he joined and the first match I saw he play I thought he could make a 6 with a little more practice.

Now as with some the better he got the bigger his ego got. Making it short. He challenged me races to 7 in 8 ..9 ..and 10 ball. I won 7-4..7-5..7-4. He still thought be was better than me...oh well . When 9 ball ltc came he lost 19-1 to a 3 and he disappeared and has not come back and never answered my calls. I guess that 3 busted his ego. What I am gettin at is all that practice did nothing to help prepare him for a lucky ass 3.

Trying to use an anology here and wish I could recall the exact words I read on here one time. Somethin like this. When asked about why he never practiced breaking boards Bruce lee replied...boards dont hit back. I guess I am trying to say when my former player did all that practicing no one was hitting back.

I guess a better analogy is ...you can run all the racks you want in your basement....dont mean nothing if you can't do it in a match.
Click to expand...
Your last sentence nailed it.
 
N

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lorider said:
I guess I would fit in the lazy category lol. I never practice.. Well let me rephrase that. There have been a few times when I lost an important match due to a shot or 2 I missed I would practice that shot until it was automatic .

I will say that hang is right about most league players......hate to admit it lol. I have seen lately ...due to the fact that a few venues changed their policy and offer a couple hours free table time before league.....that quite a few show early and practice. Let me rephrase that.....banging balls. Very few actually do drills or practice shots they have trouble with..

Now even though I don't practice much I will be the first to admit it will make you a better shooter but it does not help you develop the mental toughness you need for a match.

I would like to share a story with you and will.try to make it as short as possible. I had a new guy Join my team a few sessions ago. Now this guy practiced religiously several nights a week. I dont mean bang balls. Doing all kinds of drills and the only league player I have ever seen practice cue ball control and position shots. He would lay a quarter on the table and practice 1 rail...2 rail and 3 rail and draw shots over and over until he could get the cue bal to stop at that quarter 10 times in a row. If he missed once he started over .

He was a pretty good player when he joined and the first match I saw he play I thought he could make a 6 with a little more practice.

Now as with some the better he got the bigger his ego got. Making it short. He challenged me races to 7 in 8 ..9 ..and 10 ball. I won 7-4..7-5..7-4. He still thought be was better than me...oh well . When 9 ball ltc came he lost 19-1 to a 3 and he disappeared and has not come back and never answered my calls. I guess that 3 busted his ego. What I am gettin at is all that practice did nothing to help prepare him for a lucky ass 3.

Trying to use an anology here and wish I could recall the exact words I read on here one time. Somethin like this. When asked about why he never practiced breaking boards Bruce lee replied...boards dont hit back. I guess I am trying to say when my former player did all that practicing no one was hitting back.

I guess a better analogy is ...you can run all the racks you want in your basement....dont mean nothing if you can't do it in a match.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but it is not totally true. For many, it works out the way you think it does. But, that is only because they aren't doing the drills the correct way. Part of the drills is also the mental exercise, the focus on the task at hand, the concentration, the will to excel at the given task.

If you leave out the mental side of drills, all you learn is how to make a set-up shot.
 
cardiac kid

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
hang-the-9 said:
Had an interesting situation in a handicapped tournament recently.

During the night almost all of the good players stay at the tables and practice, setup up shots, talk about shots we missed chat about position ideas we see during a match, try out different shafts, etc...

The worse players that never seem to cash sit in a corner and complain how high their handicaps are and how the good players are too low and should give up more games. When they do "practice" they bang balls around randomly forgetting or ignoring any advice from the better players that try to help by saying "we don't have time to practice to get good like you".

One group wants to play better to win, the other group wants to win by making the better players work harder for their wins.

In short, handicapped leagues are like communism and welfare.

The funny part is that I approve of having handicaps, but if you are worse, play to get better not complain how you are not given enough of a spot to win instead of practicing.

I just found it funny seeing this, the good players playing when they are already good, and the bad players in a corner whispering about how unfair the handicaps were LOL Seems all the discussions where about league rankings not how to play better.
Click to expand...

Hate to admit it but you're spot on! The APA is a fertile arena for complainers. Used to love it when my opponent or their captain told me "I'm a professional and should be barred". Most always answered them by telling them "why don't you practice more and complain less"! BCAPL/VNEA/ACS is no different. The weaker players always complain the most about my abilities. The stronger players ask for advice or lessons. Once in a great while, a weak player asks for help getting better. Too bad it is infrequent!

Lyn
 
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