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The trials and tribulations of playing cheap sets
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hejests
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The trials and tribulations of playing cheap sets - 05-01-2008, 07:21 AM

I'm not much of a gambler but I do like playing shortish races (usually 9-ball races to 5 or 7) for $20s. It's enough to keep me interested and motivated but not too much that it becomes about the money rather than the playing (for me). It usually turns into 3 or 4 hours of back to back sets.

Last night, I'm playing a fellow that I play every so often. Lets just say I have to pay close attention to the score when we play (once a few weeks ago, it was 3-1 when I went to the washroom and miraculously 3-2 when I got back. That'll teach me to have coffee while i shoot). Anyhow, after a few hours of play last night, I'm up 3 sets ($60) and we're playing a last set for $40.

It's hill-hill, and he dogs the 6. That leaves me with a long cut shot on the 6 where I have to bridge over the 8. The 6 is only about a foot and half from the pocket so it's not bad, but I do need to go three rails for shape on the 7. I shoot, the 6 goes down and I pull off decent shape on the 7. I'm a happy camper and then...

BAM he calls a foul on me? Foul what foul? You moved the 8 with your hand. No I didn't. You moved the 8. No really I didn't. (To the guy watching our match) Did you see me move the 8? No I didn't see it move. As we're back and forthing about this foul that never happened (he wants ball in hand and I don't want to give it to him)...

He takes a few balls out of the pockets and starts shooting them (what is he doing, practicing on the game table in the middle of the game????). I'm thinking you've got to be kidding me. Thats a forfeit right there anyhow, which of course I tried explaining (to no avail). So I gave him the option, we can shoot this last game over, and I'll even give you the break (which was mine initially) OR we're done... and so... we were done.

I'm guessing he didn't like his changes at hill-hill... seems like a lot of trouble to save yourself $40. There I've vented.. I feel better.
  
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05-01-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hejests
.... There I've vented.. I feel better.
Yeah, what can you do? Fistfight?
  
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05-01-2008, 07:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hejests
I'm guessing he didn't like his chances at hill-hill... seems like a lot of trouble to save yourself $40.
Yeah, he pulled a move to get out of his bet when it looked like he was going to lose. $40 should not be enough to make somebody's honesty and decency disappear like that; I'm guessing he didn't have any to start with. Tell others about it, so they won't gamble with him. That's a fitting punishment.

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05-01-2008, 07:29 AM

That guy would go on my list of "Cheaters who I will never gamble with again". (Taht list is pretty short, most guys who play cheap sets are honest enough).
Also if I were ever to meet him in a tournament, I would make sure to watch him like a hawk.
  
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Foul?
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Lightbulb Foul? - 05-01-2008, 08:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hejests
I'm not much of a gambler but I do like playing shortish races (usually 9-ball races to 5 or 7) for $20s. It's enough to keep me interested and motivated but not too much that it becomes about the money rather than the playing (for me). It usually turns into 3 or 4 hours of back to back sets.

Last night, I'm playing a fellow that I play every so often. Lets just say I have to pay close attention to the score when we play (once a few weeks ago, it was 3-1 when I went to the washroom and miraculously 3-2 when I got back. That'll teach me to have coffee while i shoot). Anyhow, after a few hours of play last night, I'm up 3 sets ($60) and we're playing a last set for $40.

It's hill-hill, and he dogs the 6. That leaves me with a long cut shot on the 6 where I have to bridge over the 8. The 6 is only about a foot and half from the pocket so it's not bad, but I do need to go three rails for shape on the 7. I shoot, the 6 goes down and I pull off decent shape on the 7. I'm a happy camper and then...

BAM he calls a foul on me? Foul what foul? You moved the 8 with your hand. No I didn't. You moved the 8. No really I didn't. (To the guy watching our match) Did you see me move the 8? No I didn't see it move. As we're back and forthing about this foul that never happened (he wants ball in hand and I don't want to give it to him)...

He takes a few balls out of the pockets and starts shooting them (what is he doing, practicing on the game table in the middle of the game????). I'm thinking you've got to be kidding me. Thats a forfeit right there anyhow, which of course I tried explaining (to no avail). So I gave him the option, we can shoot this last game over, and I'll even give you the break (which was mine initially) OR we're done... and so... we were done.

I'm guessing he didn't like his changes at hill-hill... seems like a lot of trouble to save yourself $40. There I've vented.. I feel better.
Who plays all ball fouls except pros? Especially for cheap sets! Sound like you got a peak at his character for Cheap. Did he pay the $60 you already won? Or did you get stiffed for the full Benny?

Ray
  
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05-01-2008, 08:12 AM

I do not consider 20 Bucks Cheap.
  
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05-01-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtruck
Who plays all ball fouls except pros? Especially for cheap sets! Sound like you got a peak at his character for Cheap. Did he pay the $60 you already won? Or did you get stiffed for the full Benny?

Ray

It should be all ball fouls for everyone. I'm not saying this person moved the 8. I believe he didn't. My comment is on rules. If you're an upper level player you should have enough control over yourself that you don't go knocking balls around the table with the edge of your stick etc...
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05-01-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtruck
Who plays all ball fouls except pros? Especially for cheap sets! Sound like you got a peak at his character for Cheap. Did he pay the $60 you already won? Or did you get stiffed for the full Benny?

Ray
Exactly, who plays all ball fouls for cheap sets... (i guess this would make it all ball no foul). I got the $60, so I didn't really get stiffed, just very annoyed.
  
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05-01-2008, 08:43 AM

unless you talked about the rulls being all ball fouls it wasn't a foul. he can move it back or leave it there but it would still be your shot.
  
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05-01-2008, 08:45 AM

At least you didn't give the schmuck BIH. A couple of years ago at a tourney I ran into some crap like that and I'm still kicking myself that I let him get over!

Might not have if I hadn't already gotten into a scrap with somebody in an earlier match. Looking back, I wish I had not called the earlier opponent for a concession (no matter how testy that match had gotten, and it was at the open hostility stage) when he threw his stick on the table after dogging a 9 that made it hill-hill. Better to win or lose on the table.
  
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05-01-2008, 08:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hejests
I'm not much of a gambler but I do like playing shortish races (usually 9-ball races to 5 or 7) for $20s. It's enough to keep me interested and motivated but not too much that it becomes about the money rather than the playing (for me). It usually turns into 3 or 4 hours of back to back sets.

Last night, I'm playing a fellow that I play every so often. Lets just say I have to pay close attention to the score when we play (once a few weeks ago, it was 3-1 when I went to the washroom and miraculously 3-2 when I got back. That'll teach me to have coffee while i shoot). Anyhow, after a few hours of play last night, I'm up 3 sets ($60) and we're playing a last set for $40.

It's hill-hill, and he dogs the 6. That leaves me with a long cut shot on the 6 where I have to bridge over the 8. The 6 is only about a foot and half from the pocket so it's not bad, but I do need to go three rails for shape on the 7. I shoot, the 6 goes down and I pull off decent shape on the 7. I'm a happy camper and then...

BAM he calls a foul on me? Foul what foul? You moved the 8 with your hand. No I didn't. You moved the 8. No really I didn't. (To the guy watching our match) Did you see me move the 8? No I didn't see it move. As we're back and forthing about this foul that never happened (he wants ball in hand and I don't want to give it to him)...

He takes a few balls out of the pockets and starts shooting them (what is he doing, practicing on the game table in the middle of the game????). I'm thinking you've got to be kidding me. Thats a forfeit right there anyhow, which of course I tried explaining (to no avail). So I gave him the option, we can shoot this last game over, and I'll even give you the break (which was mine initially) OR we're done... and so... we were done.

I'm guessing he didn't like his changes at hill-hill... seems like a lot of trouble to save yourself $40. There I've vented.. I feel better.
You, sir, were playing a jerk. I'd say, "Never again" to that fellow.

Flex
  
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05-01-2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Manning
Yeah, he pulled a move to get out of his bet when it looked like he was going to lose. $40 should not be enough to make somebody's honesty and decency disappear like that; I'm guessing he didn't have any to start with. Tell others about it, so they won't gamble with him. That's a fitting punishment.

-Andrew
Absolutely right. Tell everybody, but don't let him know you're doing it.

I've heard stories of people getting killed over a few dollars lost in a pool game.

Not worth it...

Flex
  
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Agreed
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Thumbs up Agreed - 05-01-2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mullyman
It should be all ball fouls for everyone. I'm not saying this person moved the 8. I believe he didn't. My comment is on rules. If you're an upper level player you should have enough control over yourself that you don't go knocking balls around the table with the edge of your stick etc...
MULLY
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However, I will play ANY rules as long as they are the same for both of us. Probably be a good topic for a thread.

I play primarily in Texas in mid-level events but I did play in the Joss Northeast Tour at the Turning Stone Casino and Mike Zuglan explained all ball fouls (modified). If you move a ball with you hand or shaft by accident, you can stop, let your opponent know and move the ball back with no penalty. If you move a ball by accident and go ahead and shoot, it's a foul. He explained this up-front at the players meeting.

Rules should be discussed ahead of playing ANY match. Doing so will eliminate most arguments. The weasel Hejest played probably would've invented some other excuse not to pay.

Dōmo arigatō,

Ray
  
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05-01-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtruck
The weasel Hejest played probably would've invented some other excuse not to pay.

Dōmo arigatō,

Ray

Oh yeah, the guy he played is the type of person that I try to avoid in a pool room. I won't even associate with people that act like that.
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05-01-2008, 09:16 AM

All balls foul in a gambling game is kinda ridiculous. Ticky tack stuff if you ask me. I love the modified rules of the Joss tour, but I'd go further than that.....extending same to the cue ball. Only problem I see is this. Guy moves a ball. Notifies opponent, but opponent didn't see where. Guy moving the ball replaces to another, more favorable position. Opponent objects. Now, since the guy ultimately fouled, shouldn't the opponent have the right to replace the ball, regardless of whether he saw where is was or not ? How would the joss tour rules deal with this ?

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