“Don’t kill Hamlet in the first act.”

[sunnyone]

Dear Gentle Readers,

I’m not certain who first uttered those words of wisdom, but the quote made me think of pool hustlers. As in … don’t show your true speed early in the encounter.
And … like that.

Is hustling pool these days a mostly bygone pastime?

Or are there still nooks and crannies where a talented entrepreneur can sidle into a room and lemonade his way out of there with some serious cheese? (Don’t you just love the jargon!)

I’m curious … what are some of the classic hustles you know about? Beyond the obvious - - playing below speed, losing money early and then upping the wager, etc.

Example?

I so enjoy NYC-chatting with a couple of the senior scufflers around town.

Here’s one old-time mini-scam that a certain lovable reprobate shared with me. It’s a classic sucker bet. Proposition bet? Anyway, the schtick involves the cue ball and an object ball.

Place the object ball just in front of a far corner pocket. The ball is almost falling into the hole. Position the cue ball against the middle of the opposite end rail.

Explain to the mark that it’s not so much skill, that it’s mostly just a mental challenge for him. Even with the cue ball frozen to the rail, it should still be a snap for him to pocket the object ball.

One stipulation.

The poor hoser (and this is the psychological part as he understands it) first has to first walk around the table and … he has to stare at the object ball the entire time.

Of course many of you already know the drill … the hustler licks his thumb and wets the tip of the cue. Which he then hands to the unsuspecting schmo.

Splish-Splash, miscue!

So … what are some of your favorite hustles?

Straying over conventional boundaries is my life,

Sunny

P. S. My interest in larceny, petty and otherwise, has nothing - - zero! - - to do with a former beau who toiled in the City of London and is now on Wall Street. As always, my inquiries are purely scholastic. And innocent.

Well, scholastic.

Bye for now! I shall General-MacArthur you one day very soon.

 

[ShootingArts]

just to start people gambling

Dear Gentle Readers,

I’m not certain who first uttered those words of wisdom, but the quote made me think of pool hustlers. As in … don’t show your true speed early in the encounter.
And … like that.

Is hustling pool these days a mostly bygone pastime?

Or are there still nooks and crannies where a talented entrepreneur can sidle into a room and lemonade his way out of there with some serious cheese? (Don’t you just love the jargon!)

I’m curious … what are some of the classic hustles you know about? Beyond the obvious - - playing below speed, losing money early and then upping the wager, etc.

Example?

I so enjoy NYC-chatting with a couple of the senior scufflers around town.

Here’s one old-time mini-scam that a certain lovable reprobate shared with me. It’s a classic sucker bet. Proposition bet? Anyway, the schtick involves the cue ball and an object ball.

Place the object ball just in front of a far corner pocket. The ball is almost falling into the hole. Position the cue ball against the middle of the opposite end rail.

Explain to the mark that it’s not so much skill, that it’s mostly just a mental challenge for him. Even with the cue ball frozen to the rail, it should still be a snap for him to pocket the object ball.

One stipulation.

The poor hoser (and this is the psychological part as he understands it) first has to first walk around the table and … he has to stare at the object ball the entire time.

Of course many of you already know the drill … the hustler licks his thumb and wets the tip of the cue. Which he then hands to the unsuspecting schmo.

Splish-Splash, miscue!

So … what are some of your favorite hustles?

Straying over conventional boundaries is my life,

Sunny

P. S. My interest in larceny, petty and otherwise, has nothing - - zero! - - to do with a former beau who toiled in the City of London and is now on Wall Street. As always, my inquiries are purely scholastic. And innocent.

Well, scholastic.

Bye for now! I shall General-MacArthur you one day very soon.

A tiny little hustle just to stir the pot and get people started gambling years ago: Sometimes stepping into a fairly busy hall or bar with multiple tables I would find that nobody was inclined to play for anything at all. I'd set up at a prominent table and start shooting spot shots, head spot to foot spot, pocket the object ball in any pocket. "Dang that is hard, I can't make a ball!" Doesn't take long to draw a few onlookers.

Soon somebody wants to show me how it is done. "I'll bet a dollar you can't make it either, you lose if you scratch though." Soon I would have people stacked three deep wanting in on this action! Funny thing, it isn't a natural scratch but aside from missing the object ball people would find many and varied ways to scratch trying to avoid a scratch that wasn't there! The crowd that wouldn't bet anything on a game or set is now happily gambling over fifteen bucks a rack. This is usually pretty profitable all by itself but before long somebody is fed up with this prop shot and wants to get their money back playing pool.

It all started with a one dollar bet on one shot!

Hu

 

[macguy]

A tiny little hustle just to stir the pot and get people started gambling years ago: Sometimes stepping into a fairly busy hall or bar with multiple tables I would find that nobody was inclined to play for anything at all. I'd set up at a prominent table and start shooting spot shots, head spot to foot spot, pocket the object ball in any pocket. "Dang that is hard, I can't make a ball!" Doesn't take long to draw a few onlookers.

Soon somebody wants to show me how it is done. "I'll bet a dollar you can't make it either, you lose if you scratch though." Soon I would have people stacked three deep wanting in on this action! Funny thing, it isn't a natural scratch but aside from missing the object ball people would find many and varied ways to scratch trying to avoid a scratch that wasn't there! The crowd that wouldn't bet anything on a game or set is now happily gambling over fifteen bucks a rack. This is usually pretty profitable all by itself but before long somebody is fed up with this prop shot and wants to get their money back playing pool.

It all started with a one dollar bet on one shot!

Hu

As someone who did this for a pretty long time I want to dispel a fantasy that seems to be perpetuated by the movies. That is the idea of losing then upping the bet then shooting the lights out and then going on to win. It almost never works.

The guy will almost always quit even and that is if you are lucky, he may quit winner. You never let the, and I will just use the word mark, get ahead. You get him stuck right away and make his chase his money.

If he just quits after just a few games you were not going to wins anything anyway. If he shows some heart at that point you stall and keep even just out of reach as he falls farther and farther behind. In many cases the mark will be the one to want to raise the bet. Either way it is just a matter of how long he will play.

The trickiest thing is, if you find a guy who wants to play a set for like a $100.00 right off the bat, you don't want to lose the first set and be stuck a $100.00. But once you see how he plays you may need to stall a bit making it close and as a result you could in fact lose.

You also have to know where he is in the food chain in the pool room.
If he is the best player you may not want to play him right away there are others to play first. So you need information in advance.

Amazingly there are what we used to call "Pool detectives" in most areas. They will be very happy to tell you anything you want to know about anyone even trapping their own friends. Once you hook up with one of these guys you have it made.

You even see them on here, they can't wait to show everyone how smart they are and will post about players they know. Either way, it was mostly nickel and dime, no one got rich but it was fun to do if you were a player that played a decent speed.

Traveling is fun, meeting people, seeing places is fun, lots of women. I used to like to sightseeing as well and would go to all the tourist spots. It was like a long paid vacation before you got on with real life.

Heck, we read about people who get out of collage and backpack around Europe for a few years before settling down. Life is pretty long, plenty of time to sample a few different things.

 

[macguy]

A tiny little hustle just to stir the pot and get people started gambling years ago: Sometimes stepping into a fairly busy hall or bar with multiple tables I would find that nobody was inclined to play for anything at all. I'd set up at a prominent table and start shooting spot shots, head spot to foot spot, pocket the object ball in any pocket. "Dang that is hard, I can't make a ball!" Doesn't take long to draw a few onlookers.

Soon somebody wants to show me how it is done. "I'll bet a dollar you can't make it either, you lose if you scratch though." Soon I would have people stacked three deep wanting in on this action! Funny thing, it isn't a natural scratch but aside from missing the object ball people would find many and varied ways to scratch trying to avoid a scratch that wasn't there! The crowd that wouldn't bet anything on a game or set is now happily gambling over fifteen bucks a rack. This is usually pretty profitable all by itself but before long somebody is fed up with this prop shot and wants to get their money back playing pool.

It all started with a one dollar bet on one shot!

Hu

You know, I never had trouble getting people to play. Most places I went people liked me right away. I was told many times when I had won some money from a guy, that it was the first time they ever saw him go off.

I know the difference as well, I was with a guy for a while that never got any action and in no time wherever we were they hated us both. He didn't do it on purpose it was just him. I really liked being by myself and never really had a problem.

 

[trustyrusty]

nickle and diming your way through all the league players is a tough route....these days hiding your speed isn't gonna work for much of a pay day anyway. How often do you see someone that is C player speed go off to someone above a B speed? I don't care if the spot seems ridiculous, the outclassed player is going to quit fairly early on. Might as well walk in and ask for someone to call the best 3 players in the area and take your chances....they'll likely bet it up higher. Or, hide your speed a take $20-$50 for a night, after the texts go out, you won't make that the next night at the same place....

Honestly, the romanticizing of the hustle is/was always a little strange to me, but if it's your source of income I can't fault ya for trying. Admittedly I am not what most would call a gambler. I will put something on the line to get a game I want, but it's entertainment (in competition) to me, and there isn't much chance of me chasing any money lost (that's not entertaining for me, haha). There are probably more of "me" out there playing now than the go off guys, and I know that bums a lot of you out, but I think that's the way it is. Willing to spend enough to have fun, but not enough to do much damage to the weekly/monthly budget isn't a good thing for "hustlers", but it works just fine for me....With the economy the way it is, it could be that way for a LONG time too.

 

[ShootingArts]

both of your posts are gold

You know, I never had trouble getting people to play. Most places I went people liked me right away. I was told many times when I had won some money from a guy, that it was the first time they ever saw him go off.

I know the difference as well, I was with a guy for a while that never got any action and in no time wherever we were they hated us both. He didn't do it on purpose it was just him. I really liked being by myself and never really had a problem.

Both of your posts are pure gold. Always play on the other fellow's money and keep the prize dangling just out of reach! If you do go in the hole at first for some reason never let there be a point the other player is back to even if it can be avoided. Size the bet so they go from ahead to behind without ever being dead even at any time.

When returning to a place I usually had no problems getting a game. A new place or just an off night in a place I knew, sometimes it was necessary to stir the pot. That little move above was a great pot stirrer.

For about a year after I started winning I had the attitude that people could get glad in the same drawers they got mad in. I was only fifteen or sixteen and ready to take on the world at anything. After I realized that honey attracts more flies than vinegar things got a lot easier and a lot more peaceful!

Hu

 

[West Point 1987]

Most "semi-serious" players aren't very honest with themselves...and there lies the rub. (or is it "rube"?) The guys I've seen busted big usually got there because they were chasing their pride more than just the money. They're out classed and can't or won't admit it to themselves or anyone watching until it's way too late. Pride breaks them faster than a bad spot.

 

[trustyrusty]

Most "semi-serious" players aren't very honest with themselves...and there lies the rub. (or is it "rube"?) The guys I've seen busted big usually got there because they were chasing their pride more than just the money. They're out classed and can't or won't admit it to themselves or anyone watching until it's way too late. Pride breaks them faster than a bad spot.

I've certainly seen that before as well, but those are usually few and far between. I have a buddy that a give a little spot to in 1P....and he sometimes gets to that point. After a bit I'll suggest we switch to 9ball (where he is a clear favorite) to take off the sting off the 1P games. He also sweats the money more than I do, so that has a tendency to worsen his play in 1P (imo). But I don't see that situation come up nearly as often as folks on here talk about.I don't know, maybe if my goal was to win a bunch of money whenever I played....I'd see that come up more often

 

[Tommy-D]

I personally never had a problem finding a game if I really wanted one. The problem,is how far do I have to go to GET that game,and is it worth the trip.

These stories I hear about people going to a place like JOB's and not getting any action are kinda like the stories about fishing. There may be some truth to it,but probably some bullshit involved.

If a player goes to JOB's and can't get gambling action one of 2 things is going on. Either the player isn't trying hard enough,or they can't find a game where their skill level and bankroll go together.

On the other hand,I have NEVER been the type to lay down,pretend to be drunk,or pull any of the moves associated with classic "hustling". I've always preferred to play my normal all-out speed,and move on if the opponent quits early,etc. Tommy D.

 

[PhilosopherKing]

As someone who did this for a pretty long time I want to dispel a fantasy that seems to be perpetuated by the movies. That is the idea of losing then upping the bet then shooting the lights out and then going on to win. It almost never works.

The guy will almost always quit even and that is if you are lucky, he may quit winner. You never let the, and I will just use the word mark, get ahead. You get him stuck right away and make his chase his money.

If he just quits after just a few games you were not going to wins anything anyway. If he shows some heart at that point you stall and keep even just out of reach as he falls farther and farther behind. In many cases the mark will be the one to want to raise the bet. Either way it is just a matter of how long he will play.

The trickiest thing is, if you find a guy who wants to play a set for like a $100.00 right off the bat, you don't want to lose the first set and be stuck a $100.00. But once you see how he plays you may need to stall a bit making it close and as a result you could in fact lose.

You also have to know where he is in the food chain in the pool room.
If he is the best player you may not want to play him right away there are others to play first. So you need information in advance.

Amazingly there are what we used to call "Pool detectives" in most areas. They will be very happy to tell you anything you want to know about anyone even trapping their own friends. Once you hook up with one of these guys you have it made.

You even see them on here, they can't wait to show everyone how smart they are and will post about players they know. Either way, it was mostly nickel and dime, no one got rich but it was fun to do if you were a player that played a decent speed.

Traveling is fun, meeting people, seeing places is fun, lots of women. I used to like to sightseeing as well and would go to all the tourist spots. It was like a long paid vacation before you got on with real life.

Heck, we read about people who get out of collage and backpack around Europe for a few years before settling down. Life is pretty long, plenty of time to sample a few different things.

Why bother with all of that? Flipping cues is the biggest and best hustle in pool today.

 

[macguy]

nickle and diming your way through all the league players is a tough route....these days hiding your speed isn't gonna work for much of a pay day anyway. How often do you see someone that is C player speed go off to someone above a B speed? I don't care if the spot seems ridiculous, the outclassed player is going to quit fairly early on. Might as well walk in and ask for someone to call the best 3 players in the area and take your chances....they'll likely bet it up higher. Or, hide your speed a take $20-$50 for a night, after the texts go out, you won't make that the next night at the same place....

Honestly, the romanticizing of the hustle is/was always a little strange to me, but if it's your source of income I can't fault ya for trying. Admittedly I am not what most would call a gambler. I will put something on the line to get a game I want, but it's entertainment (in competition) to me, and there isn't much chance of me chasing any money lost (that's not entertaining for me, haha). There are probably more of "me" out there playing now than the go off guys, and I know that bums a lot of you out, but I think that's the way it is. Willing to spend enough to have fun, but not enough to do much damage to the weekly/monthly budget isn't a good thing for "hustlers", but it works just fine for me....With the economy the way it is, it could be that way for a LONG time too.

The times I am talking about are long gone I am referring the the 60's and much of the 70's and that is about it. The economics were also much different. A man was supporting a family on $8000.00 a year. A good pool scuffler was making three time that amount and may not bet much more the $5.00 a game and $10.00 or $20.00 would be a huge bet..

You realize $8000.00 a year is less then $150.00 a week. I often made that much in a night just playing bar pool. Pool in bars became really popular and all you had to do was walk in and put up your quarter. Everybody bet and if you didn't want to play for a few dollars a game don't put up your quarter.

These places all had their local hustlers and in most cases they are the ones you end up taking off. I used the term nickel and dime to mean exactly that. You were rarely betting very much and you made your money from a large pool of players that existed back then.

There was no cable TV or internet, cell phones not ever VCR's. People all went out at night usually to their favorite watering hole. The new addition of coin pool tables were often the center of interest in the bars. These were not sports bars with big screen TV's. that didn't exist anyway. They were mostly dives where people went to kill the night for lack of much else to do.

They they put up their quarter and when it was their turn they played for $2.00 or $3.00 and could care less if they lost $10 bucks in the course of the night. With maybe a dozen quarters ahead of them there was plenty of people who would contribute and no one person would really get hurt.

This was a job, in a busy place you had to invest the whole night but you would leave with a decent payday. You could do this endlessly and never play in the same place twice.

I am telling you what it was really like. Again I use the term nickel and dime in contrast to many stories by guys who talk about playing $500.00 sessions and winning thousands. Not that this didn't happen but a lot of those stories have been adjusted for inflation.

One story posted here the teller says he was playing for $4000.00. I was there and they were playing for $400.00. Of course this was over 40 years ago and that was a good bet then but today the story doesn't have quite the same impact so it requires monetary adjustment.

I saw many top players from Jimmy Reid to Mike Sigel, one eyed Tony, NY Blackie, and a zillion more all out in the bars playing for like $5.00 or $10.00 a game making a living and if they didn't piss it away at dog tracks or some other way they were actually making a few bucks and getting by without working. Not to say playing pool isn't work.

In the words of Walter Cronkite "That's the way it was".

 

[macguy]

Why bother with all of that? Flipping cues is the biggest and best hustle in pool today.

What I describe does not exist anymore, I am going back over 40 years when life in general was very different then today.

 

[PhilosopherKing]

What I describe does not exist anymore, I am going back over 40 years when life in general was very different then today.

I meant to and thought I had quoted the original poster... Weird.

 

[trustyrusty]

The times I am talking about are long gone I am referring the the 60's and much of the 70's and that is about it. The economics were also much different. A man was supporting a family on $8000.00 a year. A good pool scuffler was making three time that amount and may not bet much more the $5.00 a game and $10.00 or $20.00 would be a huge bet..

You realize $8000.00 a year is less then $150.00 a week. I often made that much in a night just playing bar pool. Pool in bars became really popular and all you had to do was walk in and put up your quarter. Everybody bet and if you didn't want to play for a few dollars a game don't put up your quarter.

These places all had their local hustlers and in most cases they are the ones you end up taking off. I used the term nickel and dime to mean exactly that. You were rarely betting very much and you made your money from a large pool of players that existed back then.

There was no cable TV or internet, cell phones not ever VCR's. People all went out at night usually to their favorite watering hole. The new addition of coin pool tables were often the center of interest in the bars. These were not sports bars with big screen TV's. that didn't exist anyway. They were mostly dives where people went to kill the night for lack of much else to do.

They they put up their quarter and when it was their turn they played for $2.00 or $3.00 and could care less if they lost $10 bucks in the course of the night. With maybe a dozen quarters ahead of them there was plenty of people who would contribute and no one person would really get hurt.

This was a job, in a busy place you had to invest the whole night but you would leave with a decent payday. You could do this endlessly and never play in the same place twice.

I am telling you what it was really like. Again I use the term nickel and dime in contrast to many stories by guys who talk about playing $500.00 sessions and winning thousands. Not that this didn't happen but a lot of those stories have been adjusted for inflation.

One story posted here the teller says he were playing for $4000.00. I was there and they were playing for $400.00. Of course this was over 40 years ago and that was a good bet then but today the story doesn't have quite the same impact so it requires monetary adjustment.

I saw many top players from Jimmy Reid to Mike Sigel, one eyed Tony, NY Blackie, and a zillion more all out in the bars playing for like $5.00 or $10.00 a game making a living and if they didn't piss it away at dog tracks or some other way they were actually making a few bucks and getting by without working. Not to say playing pool isn't work.

In the words of Walter Cronkite "That's the way it was".

The stories my have to be adjusted for inflation, but the reality is that that bets haven't been. You can still find nickel/dime action today, but the $150 you win might cover your cell phone bill. So unless you are the US Government and have a seemingly unlimited line of credit, there is no way you are supporting a family on bar playing winnings unless the bet can be raised to reflect the inflation of the cost of living.

If that does happen - bet is raised to even a 3 figure amount....10 minutes later half of the other players in the area have a text with a pic or video of the outta towner (or non-regular) who just scored at On the Hill Bar and Grill....

 

[macguy]

The stories my have to be adjusted for inflation, but the reality is that that bets haven't been. You can still find nickel/dime action today, but the $150 you win might cover your cell phone bill. So unless you are the US Government and have a seemingly unlimited line of credit, there is no way you are supporting a family on bar playing winnings unless the bet can be raised to reflect the inflation of the cost of living.

If that does happen - bet is raised to even a 3 figure amount....10 minutes later half of the other players in the area have a text with a pic or video of the outta towner (or non-regular) who just scored at On the Hill Bar and Grill....

That is exactly it. People play many times for no more today then they did when gas was .35 cents a gallon and Motel Six actually rented rooms for $6.00. I also made the comment you could play every night and not play in the same place twice as you traveled.

You could play in the same town for a week and never get knocked. Today as you say with cell phones and pictures it would be impossible to remain unknown. I see people post pictures that they take of a player asking who he is or if anyone knows how he plays.

The biggest thing was people liked to play back then and they all did. Every bar people put up their quarters and as far as they were concerned with a little luck they may get the table and keep it for a few games and they often did.

Everybody went out every night, there was nothing else to do except watch three channels on a B&W TV unless you were lucky enough to have a color set. People just didn't seem to care about a lot of crap.

My mother loved to bet on baseball games and bars would have pools. No one got mad when they didn't win. I swear people were different.
People today are F'n nuts.