1/2 down when scheduling

[Jim Vondrell]

I only take deposits on 2 trip jobs. I wouldn't want to take deposits over the phone because that would mean taking a credit card. I accept them but don't like to. Those fees can add up. Cancellations are annoying but not nearly an issue to start taking deposits.

 

[Club Billiards]

Good topic!
I take a third down for any multiple day jobs. Typically I like being paid at completion, for standard work. I keep very good paperwork so customers know costs, and still get the occasional move where customer assumed you'd install new cloth. People can be funny. As I also store tables there is another issue.. local move with settlement a month out I would only charge $30 to store table. In many cases they push back so nowyou can have charges add up.

Example ... I have a 9'american heritage with dead cushions in storage now that is an issue. Got $200 deposit to disassy and bring to storage for 3 months, then reassemble. It has been 14 now and customer hasn't returned a call for 6. At this point the bill is more than table...

Example... picked up an antique in NJ last year, disassy and store for 3 months
The table had a badly broken slate which I fixed for a fair price. Most of retained nuts are broken out or have issues, table was bought for too much and probably is going to cost a small fortune to refinish. Owner livesin San Diego so the plan was to crate it. After I have table having taken no deposit owner starts telling me how he can't afford to crate table and he has no room in his 700 square ' house... after 3 months I give deadline to remove or else I'm fully crating table and putting up on my pallet racks until payment clears... major issue and even though after six months he has paid all but some storage fees...he wont pay to ship it.


I do plan on taking a $75 nonrefundable booking deposit in future..though it is rare, sometimes customers will not call if they need to reschedule until morning of. For serious customers this is not an issue..for some they take offense. I have been burned by several bounced checks, only two where fraud as rest gladly made good. Last minute moves in bad areas I will occasionally tell them cash only anymore.. these days I have no problem passing on work that has customer red flags.

Just my two cents..

Rob
WWW.tabletek.net
215-622-8899

Good post. Storage is definitely a different monster. Good idea to cover your ass in paperwork, including a contract that states that if they don't pay for a certain period, or don't make contact for so long that the property being stored becomes your property. At least in that case you have something in place to protect yourself from deadbeats or people who get to the point that the storage is more than the table is worth. At least at that point, you could resell the table to get some if not all of your money owed.

Also a good idea to keep good paperwork on all jobs. I have every customer (especially the ones that aren't watching from the rail the whole time) fully inspect the table before signing off on a copy of the invoice that I keep. We discuss any issues we had with the table and make notes of them on the invoice in case a question comes up in the future. We also discuss proper care for the table and the cloth. Talking about all of these things lets the customer know that I'm not trying to get away with anything. For example, if there are problems in the slate, I'll let them know where the problems are and that they may never notice a roll off, but it's not in my nature not to let them know.

I had this come up recently with a new table. I won't mention the brand name here. We show up to do the job and the slate was TERRIBLE. Came from 3 OBVIOUSLY mismatched pieces. The seams went up and down every which way and were impossible to match to each other without some major work. There was a ton of marbling and voids in the grain that left holes in the slate everywhere. Everything filled in nicely and we got the slate to the point that you couldn't feel a seam anywhere or hear it when the ball rolled over. Now the wife was home the entire time and was aware of the issues while we were working on the slate. When the husband got home and the table played great, we could have probably just let it go at that, but when he asked if everything went ok, I told him every little issue with the slate, even though he would never be able to tell.

He did sign off that he was satisfied with the installation, but also made notes on the paperwork that goes back to the company for me to get paid. This lets them know that there were definite quality issues with the product they're selling but that we were able to resolve them to the customer's satisfaction.

 

[TableTek]

Its funny how much you learn in business through hindsight. I am have such difficulty with these two storage tables I am going to have no choice but write a full on contract for future jobs, probably involving counsel so I dot all the T's. Same to be said on warranty work. Need to really spell it out. No problem if I get a callback once, but when they blow up your phone because the kids keep peeling the duct tape and glued tails on a basic table...that's ridiculous. Same can be said on many manufacturing errors that while yes you can repair, are not included in a standard fee job. For example I just moved and recovered a custom table with no name from northern pa. The end rails were tight getting all 6 of the 3/8 rail bolts in, but pattern for ALL 12 side rail bolts was off by over an inch...Installers used 3/8 lag bolts. Not something customer wanted to pay to fix...along with dead cushions. Went over in great detail, next recovery its all getting fixed..maybe.
Rob

 

[Club Billiards]

Its funny how much you learn in business through hindsight. I am have such difficulty with these two storage tables I am going to have no choice but write a full on contract for future jobs, probably involving counsel so I dot all the T's. Same to be said on warranty work. Need to really spell it out. No problem if I get a callback once, but when they blow up your phone because the kids keep peeling the duct tape and glued tails on a basic table...that's ridiculous. Same can be said on many manufacturing errors that while yes you can repair, are not included in a standard fee job. For example I just moved and recovered a custom table with no name from northern pa. The end rails were tight getting all 6 of the 3/8 rail bolts in, but pattern for ALL 12 side rail bolts was off by over an inch...Installers used 3/8 lag bolts. Not something customer wanted to pay to fix...along with dead cushions. Went over in great detail, next recovery its all getting fixed..maybe.
Rob

Yeah, in my opinion, depending on the distance, I'd take care of something like that the first time for nothing. I actually did that a few weeks ago. Had some tabs come loose, so I showed up and re-glued them and didn't charge the guy a dime even though it had been 8-9 months since I had set up his table. Now if you know it's the kids doing it, I'd say warranty doesn't cover that. Locally, I might take care of it for free the first time if I was in the area anyway, but I would definitely let the guy know that my warranty doesn't cover what his kids undo and that the next time will cost him a trip charge.

Jobs not local are usually a different story. I'm actually facing that one now too. I've got a table in Michigan to go back on because a seam popped. I don't know how because the seams were glued and bondoed, but it happened. In that situation, I'll usually either drop by free of charge the next time I have something in the area, or I'll make the trip for just the mileage charge. I prefer not to charge the customer at all if it's something I did, but in the case of the kids pulling the tabs, I think I would let him know that that's outside warranty.

Manufacturer defects should be covered under their warranty, so we usually have that discussion when we run into a problem on a NEW table. This isn't right. I can fix it for $xxx, you can call the dealer where you got it to see how they will correct it (either replacing it, or paying me to make it right), or depending on the situation, I can install it as is. Now you have to be careful there because your reputation is on that installation. I had a recover where the previous hack had put the wrong profile rubber on a table. Owner said he couldn't afford to do anything more than the recover, so just put it back together the way it is and we'll address that next time. I refused. I told him that I was putting my name on the work and I wasn't willing to do that if it wasn't right. If he wanted to half-ass the table he needed to find someone else. We ended up doing new rubber and the recover. That kind of situation needs to be handled on a case by case basis, and obviously used tables that are out of warranty, may not apply.

 

[TableTek]

Yeah, in my opinion, depending on the distance, I'd take care of something like that the first time for nothing. I actually did that a few weeks ago. Had some tabs come loose, so I showed up and re-glued them and didn't charge the guy a dime even though it had been 8-9 months since I had set up his table. Now if you know it's the kids doing it, I'd say warranty doesn't cover that. Locally, I might take care of it for free the first time if I was in the area anyway, but I would definitely let the guy know that my warranty doesn't cover what his kids undo and that the next time will cost him a trip charge.

Jobs not local are usually a different story. I'm actually facing that one now too. I've got a table in Michigan to go back on because a seam popped. I don't know how because the seams were glued and bondoed, but it happened. In that situation, I'll usually either drop by free of charge the next time I have something in the area, or I'll make the trip for just the mileage charge. I prefer not to charge the customer at all if it's something I did, but in the case of the kids pulling the tabs, I think I would let him know that that's outside warranty.

Manufacturer defects should be covered under their warranty, so we usually have that discussion when we run into a problem on a NEW table. This isn't right. I can fix it for $xxx, you can call the dealer where you got it to see how they will correct it (either replacing it, or paying me to make it right), or depending on the situation, I can install it as is. Now you have to be careful there because your reputation is on that installation. I had a recover where the previous hack had put the wrong profile rubber on a table. Owner said he couldn't afford to do anything more than the recover, so just put it back together the way it is and we'll address that next time. I refused. I told him that I was putting my name on the work and I wasn't willing to do that if it wasn't right. If he wanted to half-ass the table he needed to find someone else. We ended up doing new rubber and the recover. That kind of situation needs to be handled on a case by case basis, and obviously used tables that are out of warranty, may not apply.

I hear ya there! I've been doing quite a bit of long distance jobs the past few years. Thankfully I haven't had any callbacks, though I know eventually I will. Too many variables to deal with. I do make a point of following up on long distance jobs more so than local. I did have a billiard express install where the glue didnt bond cause seam popped. I think customer moved table but at that point what can you do but just fix it. I called in a favor from Paras he was local. It does pay to know top mechanics all over the country! Even a total hack like me can be of use!

I couldn't tell you how many customers I turn down. Usually two or three a week, on site at least one a month. Had one today to move an imperial table out of a Park Ave building where they required 5million dollar insurance proof before letting you in. No way. Specially for a $600 move, on a cheapo table.