10 ball- called shot

S

Slh

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi
what i like of 10 ball is the called shot and the golden break which doesn't work. I think those rules decrease the luck factor and usually the best player win. Today i have seen a predator 10 ball match (souquet-orcollo) and there aren't called shots. At one time orcullo get in trouble, but he flukes 2 balls and he run out. I really don't understand why every tournament don't use the called shot rule. Orcollo runs out only for the lucky flukes and not for his skills and this is pretty annoying.
In this way 10 ball is the same game of 9 ball ( only with a different break) where the player who get more lucky rolls, flukes wins the match ( i know i'm exagerating but... ).
What do you think?

Sorry for my poor english.
 
The problem is that I have not seen any standardized rules for the game. I've also seen the matches that you describe where the players have to call their shots, and the 10-ball on the break is spotted.

I've also seen where the 10-ball on the break is only a win if it goes in the side pockets or in the corner pockets at the other end of the table.

I've also seen where combos on the 10-ball are not a win and other matches where it is.

Very confusing indeed. But I agree with you, when players have to call all shots and the 10-ball on the break is not a win, the player with the best skills will win. I think that format is very entertaining for those of us looking to watch top-notch pool.
 
luck of the draw

IMHO 9-ball and 10-ball are both gambling games which remind me of the various poker games. They are fast games that require skill (although of a different nature). The luck is like a third adversary and the greater the skill the less influence luck has in the outcome. But the influence of luck although mitigated by a level of skill cannot ever be overcome completely.It always is a factor to be considered. This gives added spice to the games
and prevents them from being bland. A game with no luck and much deliberation is chess. I just can't imagine spectators of a chess match ever doing the ,"wave.":boring2:
 
12310bch said:
IMHO 9-ball and 10-ball are both gambling games which remind me of the various poker games. They are fast games that require skill (although of a different nature). The luck is like a third adversary and the greater the skill the less influence luck has in the outcome. But the influence of luck although mitigated by a level of skill cannot ever be overcome completely.It always is a factor to be considered. This gives added spice to the games
and prevents them from being bland. A game with no luck and much deliberation is chess. I just can't imagine spectators of a chess match ever doing the ,"wave.":boring2:
Click to expand...

Well said (especially the "third adversary" notion), and I agree. For the same reason I don't think we should be so concerned with making perfect racks.

pj
chgo
 
Lucking a ball in an unintended pocket is a tiny fraction of the luck factor in 9 or 10 ball. And it works for and against players, as when a ball falls in on a safety and leaves the shooter safe. Most of the luck is in playing position for the next shot, or what you leave when you miss.

Call shot rules tilt the game towards safe play and are a bad idea imo.
 
In the current WSR if the called ball does not go in the called pocket and then goes into another pocket, or if another ball is pocketed, play stops and the non-shooting player has the right to inspect the table and either shoot or pass the shot back to the original shooter.

And there is safety play in 10 ball at the pro level, but IMO it is about the same amount as 9 ball. Lower skill level players may play more safeties.

unknownpro said:
Lucking a ball in an unintended pocket is a tiny fraction of the luck factor in 9 or 10 ball. And it works for and against players, as when a ball falls in on a safety and leaves the shooter safe. Most of the luck is in playing position for the next shot, or what you leave when you miss.

Call shot rules tilt the game towards safe play and are a bad idea imo.
Click to expand...
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The problem is they haven't been universally adopted:

World Pool-Billiard Association - World Standardized Rules - 10 Ball

http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_10ball

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
9.5 Call Shots & Pocketing Balls
Whenever the shooter is attempting to pocket a ball (except the break) he is required to call shots, the intended ball and pocket must be indicated for each
shot if they are not obvious. Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant.

The problem I see when rules are set with the intension of eliminating "luck" the rules add complications that make it very difficult to even play/ officiate the game
and typically only shift the luck to the opponent. For instance if I pocket a ball in the called pocket but on its way in it nicks another ball its usually called a foul and the
opponent steps to the table. He's the lucky one in this case even though the kiss may have reduced the chances of the ball dropping.

The rule above from the WPBA eliminates this issue.

I think call your pocket is fine but its futile to think that there's a set of rules that eliminate the so called luck factor.
 
unknownpro said:
Lucking a ball in an unintended pocket is a tiny fraction of the luck factor in 9 or 10 ball. And it works for and against players, as when a ball falls in on a safety and leaves the shooter safe. Most of the luck is in playing position for the next shot, or what you leave when you miss.

Call shot rules tilt the game towards safe play and are a bad idea imo.
Click to expand...

i don't think so.. The most important thing on pocket billiard is to pocket the balls, if you fluke a ball and you get position you know better than me that you got a huge advantage. At this level if you win a rack like that and break and run out you are in big advantage. I don't say to cut all the luck factor, but at this level where the player skills are very high, usually win the luckiest player. With called shot this don't happen.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
In the current WSR if the called ball does not go in the called pocket and then goes into another pocket, or if another ball is pocketed, play stops and the non-shooting player has the right to inspect the table and either shoot or pass the shot back to the original shooter.

And there is safety play in 10 ball at the pro level, but IMO it is about the same amount as 9 ball. Lower skill level players may play more safeties.
Click to expand...

I was talking about a regular, no call shot game. I would guess there are nearly as many balls lucked in playing safe (unlucky for the shooter) as when playing a shot in pro tournaments. There will be nowhere near as many balls lucked in as there will be other "lucky" rolls. Focusing on calling the shot to eliminate luck can never be effective if most of the luck does not involve ball pocketing at all.

Cory's tournament demonstrated in the finals a reluctance for either player to play difficult shots for fear of leaving a safe they would have to shoot. Normal rules will produce more run outs and a better, more exciting game.
 
unknownpro said:
I was talking about a regular, no call shot game. I would guess there are nearly as many balls lucked in playing safe (unlucky for the shooter) as when playing a shot in pro tournaments. There will be nowhere near as many balls lucked in as there will be other "lucky" rolls. Focusing on calling the shot to eliminate luck can never be effective if most of the luck does not involve ball pocketing at all.

Cory's tournament demonstrated in the finals a reluctance for either player to play difficult shots for fear of leaving a safe they would have to shoot. Normal rules will produce more run outs and a better, more exciting game.
Click to expand...
i know luck factor can't be erased but if i can decrease it without distorting the game, why i don't must use the called shot rule?
 
Slh said:
i know luck factor can't be erased but if i can decrease it without distorting the game, why i don't must use the called shot rule?
Click to expand...

Because you cannot decrease it without distorting the game. If you want call shot, why not call runout? Because call runout would be even more boring, everybody would play safe all the time afraid they'd get out of line.
 
Slh said:
Hi
what i like of 10 ball is the called shot and the golden break which doesn't work. I think those rules decrease the luck factor and usually the best player win. Today i have seen a predator 10 ball match (souquet-orcollo) and there aren't called shots. At one time orcullo get in trouble, but he flukes 2 balls and he run out. I really don't understand why every tournament don't use the called shot rule. Orcollo runs out only for the lucky flukes and not for his skills and this is pretty annoying.
In this way 10 ball is the same game of 9 ball ( only with a different break) where the player who get more lucky rolls, flukes wins the match ( i know i'm exagerating but... ).
What do you think?

Sorry for my poor english.
Click to expand...

I believe 10-ball is designed that way to make it a true pool discipline instead of just being a 9-ball + 1.

You can certainly also fluke a ball to your own demise in 9-ball. 9-ball is geared towards all-around use of skills. Caroming is an often overlook skill which is very much at home with non-called shot like 9-ball.
 
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