Did Grady Mathews start the drive to make 10 Ball a call shot game? I think he wanted to take luck out of the game.
10 Ball Pool Rules
- Thread starter Tennesseejoe
- Start date
I heard that the inclusion of call-shot 10 ball in the 2008 World Standardized Rules was at the urging of a top player who didn't like all the luck in 9 ball.
I think that Grady also favored luck reduction rules but as I vaguely recall it was for 9 ball and not 10 ball.
Prior to 2000, I think all the 10 ball I saw was in ring games with strong players and it was best effort and slop counts.
I think that Grady also favored luck reduction rules but as I vaguely recall it was for 9 ball and not 10 ball.
Prior to 2000, I think all the 10 ball I saw was in ring games with strong players and it was best effort and slop counts.
Grady used call shots in 9-ball, not sure about his involvement in 10-ball. He had at least a few tournaments where they used the called shot called safe rules in 9-ball.
My understanding was that the WPA wanted to have a different Championship game, so they took the existing game of 10-ball and changed the rules to Call Shot such that it was a distinctly different game than 9-ball.
In the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, the professional touring players (as they were) had a couple or three 10-ball tournaments, all with old school rules, which would have been the non-call 9-ball flavor-of-the-day rules. E.g. 1990 Cleveland 10-ball (Hopkins defeated David Howard in the finals).
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So in the early days of 10 ball the only difference between 9 & 10 ball was the extra ball? I have not been shooting all that long, when did 10 ball become a thing?
They first appeared in the WSR in the 2008 revision.
yea take all the luck out of the game and make it completely skill so the best player wins almost every time.
then it can all be for fun with no weak players entering. it can be like chess where the best player always wins.
then again we usually know who the best player is in most matches so they really dont even need to be played.
and certainly, no gambling without a spot would ever happen.
i say put more luck into the game so anyone entering or standing up to bet, thinks and does have some kind of chance to win.
if you want pool to grow make it so more players can win.
look how poker grew and the prize funds. do you think it would have happened if the ten best players in the world won almost every single tournament and if not, took all the lower placed money out..
then it can all be for fun with no weak players entering. it can be like chess where the best player always wins.
then again we usually know who the best player is in most matches so they really dont even need to be played.
and certainly, no gambling without a spot would ever happen.
i say put more luck into the game so anyone entering or standing up to bet, thinks and does have some kind of chance to win.
if you want pool to grow make it so more players can win.
look how poker grew and the prize funds. do you think it would have happened if the ten best players in the world won almost every single tournament and if not, took all the lower placed money out..
When did 10-ball become a thing? It’s listed in the 1985 BCA Rulebook. It was my practice game since at least 1988. I’m sure someone like @jay helfert can tell you when the first time he saw 10-ball being played in the back rooms.
I assume he was asking when 10-ball came about before the WPA changed the rules.
I saw Texas Express 10ball played (in an action match) in the late 1970's but I was told it wasn't new even then. My best guess is that it's around for 50+ years.
Also, in its last couple of years (1998-99), the PBT experimented with Texas Express 10ball.
I don't think Grady was an advocate of 10ball, but he did try a modified version of 9ball to try to limit some of the luck factor. His version of 9ball, used in a tournament I attended at Pete Fusco's room near Philadelphia in about 1998, never caught on and disappeared rapidly.
Also, in its last couple of years (1998-99), the PBT experimented with Texas Express 10ball.
I don't think Grady was an advocate of 10ball, but he did try a modified version of 9ball to try to limit some of the luck factor. His version of 9ball, used in a tournament I attended at Pete Fusco's room near Philadelphia in about 1998, never caught on and disappeared rapidly.
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L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
I used to have a copy of Grady's rules for nine ball, I may still have them tucked away in my files someplace. I remember e-mailing him at one point for some clarification and he was nice enough to get back to me on it. As I recall it was all call pocket with no early nine balls allowed. So if someone made a combo on the nine, it would spot back up and the player would continue to shoot.l The nine had to be the last ball made during any rack.
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In truth, I just can't remember the details of Grady's version of 9ball. If you can dig up those rules, please post them.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
That's how we used to play it locally and I much prefer that version. It takes the wired break out of 9 ball which is already a huge luck reduction.
I'll admit I love me some slop and "luck." I honestly believe that the people who complain the loudest about luck in 9B just don't understand caroms, percentages or two way shots. If I can take a free roll and protect the CB from the machinations of my opponent, I'm taking it.
If I can "slop" the 9B in early off a carom into a cross bank on the 9B I will, as long as it's a 2 way shot and protects whitey. Sometimes a free roll on an OB into a safety is the play, but it's like even many intermediate players don't get a two way shot. Take a chance at a low percentage but control the CB.
Along those lines I think playing 1P really upped my chances of winning at all disciplines. The opponent can't shoot what they can't see. Leave them locked in jail, traps to break out clusters, scratch traps or just low percentage shots with no future... leave bad patterns etc. It's funny how people will cuss bad rolls when you purposely leave them something terrible to come to the table with.
Shooting a carom or a tickie in 9 ball isn't necessarily slop if you see, plan it, and shoot it. I don't mind a little bit of luck in a game of 9 ball but lower level players tend to play a different game. The 9 ball game I don't care for is the one when the player is faced with anything slightly challenging and decides to send the lowest ball on the table full speed at the 9 ball to see what happens, its amazing some of the 9 ball combo, kick, bank, caroms (all on one shot) that I have seen and when the player makes nothing how often the cue ball seems to roll up at the perfect safety position. A match of 9 ball between 2 slightly better than average (about 550 and up Fargo) league players usually has little to no slop.That's how we used to play it locally and I much prefer that version. It takes the wired break out of 9 ball which is already a huge luck reduction.
I'll admit I love me some slop and "luck." I honestly believe that the people who complain the loudest about luck in 9B just don't understand caroms, percentages or two way shots. If I can take a free roll and protect the CB from the machinations of my opponent, I'm taking it.
If I can "slop" the 9B in early off a carom into a cross bank on the 9B I will, as long as it's a 2 way shot and protects whitey. Sometimes a free roll on an OB into a safety is the play, but it's like even many intermediate players don't get a two way shot. Take a chance at a low percentage but control the CB.
Along those lines I think playing 1P really upped my chances of winning at all disciplines. The opponent can't shoot what they can't see. Leave them locked in jail, traps to break out clusters, scratch traps or just low percentage shots with no future... leave bad patterns etc. It's funny how people will cuss bad rolls when you purposely leave them something terrible to come to the table with.
100% agree but such a change isn't even on the horizon the way i see it. the 9-ball tour is tied up with cuetec and the 10-ball tour with predator. maybe if the players demanded it, but that seems improbable too
Such a weak argument... ad nauseam on this forum.
Just use the search function for the standardized rebuttals
Impossible is more like it. Players sponsored by cue companies that make jump cues really don't even have the option to shun jump cues unless they want their sponsorship deals terminated (or made less remunerative).
Independent events and regional tour events may ban jump cues as they please, but any major tour that hopes to continue attracting the best players must permit their use.
Jump cues are here to stay, and those that aspire to a career in pro pool need to develop proficiency with it.
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