10 Interesting and Creative Shots … Are They Legal in the APA or WPA?

dr_dave

dr_dave

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FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates 10 interesting and creative shots in a quiz format, where you need to decide if the shots are legal or not, either under the WPA “official rules of pool” or under any league systems, including the APA. The correct answers are discussed and explained in detail. See how well you can do on the quiz, and learn some new shots:


The shots included are:
1 - downward swipe
2 - cue lift jump shot
3 - unintentional scoop jump
4 - unintentional miscue scoop with good result
5 - finger-tip stroke
6 - elevated draw forward
7 - hitting into frozen CB
8 - intentional miscue herd
9 - jump through mesh pocket
10 - small-gap follow

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates 10 interesting and creative shots in a quiz format, where you need to decide if the shots are legal or not, either under the WPA “official rules of pool” or under any league systems, including the APA. The correct answers are discussed and explained in detail. See how well you can do on the quiz, and learn some new shots:


The shots included are:
1 - downward swipe
2 - cue lift jump shot
3 - unintentional scoop jump
4 - unintentional miscue scoop with good result
5 - finger-tip stroke
6 - elevated draw forward
7 - hitting into frozen CB
8 - intentional miscue herd
9 - jump through mesh pocket
10 - small-gap follow

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

Does everybody agree with all my WPA and APA calls for the 10 shots in the video?

Any comments?

Thanks,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Does everybody agree with all my WPA and APA calls for the 10 shots in the video?

Any comments?

Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...
Cool stuff, Dave.

I agree with all your calls (no comment on APA calls), but have a question about #5 - finger-tip stroke. The cue moves in the normal way, but not with a "normal stroke" - that's not required?

pj
chgo
 
Is #9 is really legal?

IIRC, the rules used to say that to make a legal jump shot you have to hit the top hemisphere of the cue ball.

Edit: Though it does make for a good proposition bet.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Cool stuff, Dave.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Patrick Johnson said:
I agree with all your calls (no comment on APA calls), but have a question about #5 - finger-tip stroke. The cue moves in the normal way, but not with a "normal stroke" - that's not required?
Click to expand...

Under WPA, the only thing required for a “normal stroke” is that the cue moves forward (in the direction of the cue). As with many things, APA is mum on the matter.
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates 10 interesting and creative shots in a quiz format, where you need to decide if the shots are legal or not, either under the WPA “official rules of pool” or under any league systems, including the APA. The correct answers are discussed and explained in detail. See how well you can do on the quiz, and learn some new shots:


The shots included are:
1 - downward swipe
2 - cue lift jump shot
3 - unintentional scoop jump
4 - unintentional miscue scoop with good result
5 - finger-tip stroke
6 - elevated draw forward
7 - hitting into frozen CB
8 - intentional miscue herd
9 - jump through mesh pocket
10 - small-gap follow

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...

What do you guys think about shot 9? Do you think it should be legal to insert the cue through a mesh pocket and launch the CB in the air with a good hit on the bottom part of the CB?
 
yea you can create a set of situations and rules to cover them and have nothing but arguments in the game.

make them all legal and no arguments. as no way you are going to convince your opponent he has fouled or you didn't when some of those happen. all that will happen if gambling is one guy doesn't get paid.

and in a tournament unless a director was called over before the shot no one is going to win the disagreement.

the old way when we gambled was it within a chalks distance from the object ball you had to elevate 45 degrees. that solved all hits. even if it made some mistakes.

also you cannot use the intention thing when deciding if a foul occurred. like with the scoop shot. its a foul if no ball you were shooting at is there but not if one is there? doesnt work.
 
Great video Dr. Dave👍
I learned I highly disagree with the APA🤣
As for the mesh pocket jumpshot i certainly wouldn't jump that way, reminds of a trickshot where the cueball is elevated and launched over something(usually placed on a piece of chalk in someones mouth). If you used it in a match, every banger within a hundred miles would know your name lol
 
dr_dave said:
What do you guys think about shot 9? Do you think it should be legal to insert the cue through a mesh pocket and launch the CB in the air with a good hit on the bottom part of the CB?
Click to expand...
Since my table has mesh pockets, I think the shot should be legal.

maha said:
the old way when we gambled was it within a chalks distance from the object ball you had to elevate 45 degrees. that solved all hits. even if it made some mistakes.
Click to expand...
I like that. We can't make perfect calls all the time so this is a good compromise.
maha said:
also you cannot use the intention thing when deciding if a foul occurred. like with the scoop shot. its a foul if no ball you were shooting at is there but not if one is there? doesnt work.
Click to expand...
That's how the rules are written but I am generally against any rule that requires knowing the players intention. In a situation like shot 4 where the cue ball jumps the "intended" object ball and opens up other balls, what's to stop me from calling the 13 when I'm am actually intending to jump the ball and break up my cluster? I personally think if a miscue results in a shot that would not have been executed without the miscue, it should be a foul.

Is shot 8 a foul only because it is intentional? I think it should be because that shot is impossible without the miscue redirecting the cue ball, and subsequently, the 8 ball.
 
maha said:
yea you can create a set of situations and rules to cover them and have nothing but arguments in the game … make them all legal and no arguments.
Click to expand...

I generally agree that we should have as few rules as possible to reduce the need for judgement calls and potential arguments; however, most rules (in all sports) are there for good reasons. For example, if you started allowing double hits, intentional miscues, scoop shots, push shots, cue-swipe shots, and other anything-goes one-continuous-motion strokes, that would significantly change the game of pool. For more information, see the “Should rules be changed to allow an anything-goes one-continuous stroke?” Section near the bottom of the rules resource page.

maha said:
also you cannot use the intention thing when deciding if a foul occurred.
Click to expand...

Again, allowing things like intentional miscues and intentional scoop shots would significantly change the game.
 
KyHighball said:
Great video Dr. Dave👍
Click to expand...

Thanks.

KyHighball said:
As for the mesh pocket jumpshot i certainly wouldn't jump that way, reminds of a trickshot where the cueball is elevated and launched over something(usually placed on a piece of chalk in someones mouth). If you used it in a match, every banger within a hundred miles would know your name lol
Click to expand...

… but should it be legal?
 
maha said:
the old way when we gambled was it within a chalks distance from the object ball you had to elevate 45 degrees. that solved all hits. even if it made some mistakes.
Click to expand...

The “45 degree rule” is a relic from the past, and I hope it stays that way for all the reasons in this video:

 
tomatoshooter said:
Since my table has mesh pockets, I think the shot should be legal.
Click to expand...

I like the way you think.

tomatoshooter said:
That's how the rules are written but I am generally against any rule that requires knowing the players intention
Click to expand...

So do you or others think intentional miscues and intentional scoop shots should be allowed?

tomatoshooter said:
I personally think if a miscue results in a shot that would not have been executed without the miscue, it should be a foul.
Click to expand...

That’s not a bad idea. Or maybe all miscues should be fouls since pretty much all of them involve double hits or secondary contact per the videos on the miscue resource page.
 
once you allow jump shots you open the can of worms to how and what is a jump shot. of course you cant have the scoop shot. but why have the down jump allowed. and bring in a special cue to do it.
 
so what are you going to do when i do some too long of contact with the cueball when its frozen or close to it. call a foul. so i say no.
then one of you doesnt get played with in the pool room often. you may be right but you will be right for in the chair watching others play.
or relegated to playing funzzies with the bangers.
 
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