14.1 for 8-Ball practice.

[drivermaker]

This is also what I think. I'm working on my break and studying the choice and runout sequences. This makes so much of a difference. There are probably 50 different sequence options for either set of balls. Quickly assessing the best probably path, that has options further along in case shape is missed, and considering paths that may keep you in the game by blocking opponent's balls takes a lot of mental training.

For right now...there is no next. What you said above is the key. There's no more to say. If you start shooting without really having read the table properly, it's like a blind person trying to read a book that's not written in braille. It'll make no sense and you'll be flailing around.

One other thing...once you start...don't miss!

 

[Colin Colenso]

For right now...there is no next. What you said above is the key. There's no more to say. If you start shooting without really having read the table properly, it's like a blind person trying to read a book that's not written in braille. It'll make no sense and you'll be flailing around.

One other thing...once you start...don't miss!

Yes, it's a daunting journey once you begin. The further you go, the harder it is to climb back. The pressure mounts. This is why it is critical to get a lot of tough challenge matches in the lead up.

It's one thing to finish an out in practice and another to make them under the pump.

What's strange is the opinion that in 9-ball, there is that constant building to a pressure finish. In fact 8-ball has much more tension and pressure. Most the time in 9-ball the last 4 balls are played like peeling potatoes. If you mess up position, you're still favorite as you can play a safety.

In 8-ball, you're committed and on those last 3 balls, any error in shape can be loss of match. The 8-ball is often the hardest shot played as it is often blocked by a cluster. Now watching those shots can be real fun!

 

[Big Bad Bern]

Hi Colin, what I have been taught by a well known pro is to attempt to play every ball into the closest pocket to it and move the cueball as little as possible. I find this tends to make patterns more self evident, from their just stay in line and don't hook yourself. This planning strategy allows me to run out a fair bit of the time even with my flawed stroke. Also somthing else that I find that helps is to play 8ball on a ten foot snooker table if you can it forces you to play the right and easiest patterns and shoot everything in the center of the pocket.

Congratulations and Good luck

Bern

 

[pete lafond]

Straight pool requires great imagination, frequent problem solving, and self-designed patterns, and the skills it develops translate well to eight ball.

Still, I feel you should be playing more eight ball than straight pool to prepare yourself for the IPT.

I agree with you but 14.1, assuming you can stick to your patterns, will help an 8 ball player with position play. Unlike 9 ball were ideal position has greater tolerances, 14.1 requires greater precision in repetition of position play.

But as you stated, practicing 8 ball more often would be best.

 

[pete lafond]

...

In 8-ball, you're committed and on those last 3 balls, any error in shape can be loss of match. The 8-ball is often the hardest shot played as it is often blocked by a cluster. Now watching those shots can be real fun!

Yes, if you do screw up you had better know how to play extremely tight safes and know how to kick defensively, not just kick.

 

[JLW]

Colin,

I've been thinking about the exact same thing. And I think there's a lot of truth to your initial post. 14.1 and 8 ball are very similar, but maybe not as much as you would think at first glance.

I think for me, one of the major differences is that 14.1 is played primarily on one half of the table with most of the shots being made in the two corner pockets. So, most of the time, you want to keep the cb toward the center of the table and approach shots from above the rack. In 8 ball, even though the balls might get clustered, they are all over the table and you can make them wherever. I was playing some 14.1 this week and had to stop and really think about where I was leaving the cb. I was making shots and getting position, but I wasn't necessarily shooting balls in the right sequence or from the correct angles, if that makes sense.

The other big difference I notice is that in 14.1 you never really get many opportunities to "air out" your stroke. Not a lot of power draws, table length cuts, etc in 14.1. So, in some ways, I can see how playing 9 ball in combination with the 14.1 might be really good practice for 8 ball. Just some random thoughts.

 

[pete lafond]

Colin,

I've been thinking about the exact same thing. And I think there's a lot of truth to your initial post. 14.1 and 8 ball are very similar, but maybe not as much as you would think at first glance.

.

One key factor is that if you are any good at 14.1 and you need to break out a cluster - You know not only were the cue ball is going but were every ball in the cluster is going too. This is excellent knowledge for 8 ball.

 

[JLW]

One key factor is that if you are any good at 14.1 and you need to break out a cluster - You know not only were the cue ball is going but were every ball in the cluster is going too. This is excellent knowledge for 8 ball.

I agree. Absolutely. That is one way in which I think 14.1 knowledge is very helpful to 8 ball players. But I find that on most 8 and 9 foot tables, the balls spread out pretty good. There usually aren't a whole lot of clusters. And the game becomes about running out; much like 9 ball.

 

[drivermaker]

This is also what I think. I'm working on my break and studying the choice and runout sequences. This makes so much of a difference. There are probably 50 different sequence options for either set of balls. Quickly assessing the best probably path, that has options further along in case shape is missed, and considering paths that may keep you in the game by blocking opponent's balls takes a lot of mental training.

I just got my November issue of Billiards Digest and Nick Varner's column is devoted entirely to this subject. Pick up the issue if you can. "Choice of Group - it can win or lose for you" is the title. He said, "The initial decision is CRITICAL and could determine the outcome of the game and that you have to plan your pattern play before striking the first ball". (obviously there's a lot more to the article than this)

 

[sonia]

Name Of Any Game

I tried some 14.1 today, to see how it might benefit my 8-ball game.

btw: I struggled to maintain concentration in this game and found it tricky to choose smart patterns, but I started to get better after an hour or so.

I thought this game might help me with developing 8-ball patterns, but I actually think I'd be much better served just playing 8-ball and trying to lift my out percentage. In my solo session today I was probably shooting about 40% clearance from after the break shot.

I figure I will need to get this to around 80%. That's a pretty big gap to bridge, but I've just started serious practice and I'm still fishing for the angles (Aiming help DM?) which should improve very soon.

Anyway, when making 8-ball clearances (which really is the biggest part of 8-ball I believe), the patterns and kisses are quite different than in 14.1. The carom shots are usually quite different and with different goals.

I think my time would be better served by practicing and improving my 8-ball patterns. Order to take, when and how to kiss out the dead balls etc. The odds of success increase very significantly by choosing smarter routes. This is something 14.1 would give me only minimal assistance in.

AIMING IS THE NAME OF ANY GAME. A CONSISTENT AND ACCURATE AIMING SYSTEM DOES WONDERS. THERE IS ALSO THE BENEFIT OF NOT HAVING TO CONTEND WITH INVISIBLE CONTACT POINTS FOR ANY REASON.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

AIMING IS THE NAME OF ANY GAME. A CONSISTENT AND ACCURATE AIMING SYSTEM DOES WONDERS. THERE IS ALSO THE BENEFIT OF NOT HAVING TO CONTEND WITH INVISIBLE CONTACT POINTS FOR ANY REASON.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU USE AN AIMING SYSTEM BUT DONT LINE UP CORRECTLY TO THE SHOT? YOU MISS.

 

[Colin Colenso]

AIMING IS THE NAME OF ANY GAME. A CONSISTENT AND ACCURATE AIMING SYSTEM DOES WONDERS. THERE IS ALSO THE BENEFIT OF NOT HAVING TO CONTEND WITH INVISIBLE CONTACT POINTS FOR ANY REASON.

The best potter in the world will still make a low percentage of outs in 8-ball without an intelligent run-out plan and good shape.

I have played with pro-snooker players who can pot the lights out, but if they don't know much about 8-ball run-out planning, or don't treat it with the respect it deserves, they play way below pro 8-ball level.

On the other hand I had the opportunity to play with and watch Ralf Souquet recently. Not to mean any disrespect to Ralf, but his accuracy of potting is not to the level of some pool/snooker players I have come across, though he does pot very well of course. But the fact is, this has little effect on his success in 9-ball or 8-ball. What makes him such a tough player to beat is his choice of shot, his run out planning.

For some reason, watching in real life is more convincing than watching on video. You can more easily look at the table and decide what your own run-out strategy would be. So after watching Ralf play so consistantly game after game, rarely needing to take on big or risky shots (something I often find myself doing), I realised I had wasted too much time on trying to become the world's most accurate cueist / aimer. Fact is my aiming has probably been as good as it needed to be for the last 15 years for me to play at the highest levels, but what really has been holding me back was my lack of attention to studying run out planning.

Another thing I notice, is that when you feel you have chosen the right shot, and you have a solid, relatively low risk run out plan, it greatly reduces aiming errors that often occur due to second guessing or thinking more about the high demands/risks of the shape aspect.

In conclusion, while the better you can aim, the more accurately you can pot, it is an advantage, but I believe 80% or more of the run outs we see in 8-ball and 9-ball from the pros are made up of sequences of pots that most B level players wouldn't have any troubles with. Aiming is hence a factor in the game, not the name of the game.

 

[BeeMan]

Colin,
I want to congratulate you on making the IPT mate. I wish you all the best on your journey.
Will you be basing yourself in America or will you be coming back to Shanghai?

 

[Colin Colenso]

Colin,
I want to congratulate you on making the IPT mate. I wish you all the best on your journey.
Will you be basing yourself in America or will you be coming back to Shanghai?

Thanks Mate!
I'll be back and forth. 5 trips each about a week at a time.

But I suspect after the first year I'll get some deal as spokesman for Louis Vuitton or some similar brand and have to tour the world full time

 

[Solartje]

coling, could u post the code for how u brake the 8 ball. maybe different options?

always easyer to see it then to read it, for not perfect englisch speaking people. i have a 8 ball coming up in a month, and i need to train my breakes too.

i found a brake that works well for me, but i think after reading some posts its totally not 'tradition' and no one does it, probably because it doesnt work as good as other.

START(
%AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pp5Z1%WP3P1%Xs2[0%YD5L0%ZN6O2
)END

cb around 2balls distence from the pocket, and straight on the first ball. (green line is where the 1 would go if it was the only ball on the table.) ive tried the hitting right in between the 1 and 2 ball but its not working AT all for me :s maybe im doing something wrong. hope u could help me out

thx, and gl in the ITP

 

[Colin Colenso]

coling, could u post the code for how u brake the 8 ball. maybe different options?

always easyer to see it then to read it, for not perfect englisch speaking people. i have a 8 ball coming up in a month, and i need to train my breakes too.

i found a brake that works well for me, but i think after reading some posts its totally not 'tradition' and no one does it, probably because it doesnt work as good as other.

START(
%AN7O5%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pp5Z1%WP3P1%Xs2[0%YD5L0%ZN6O2
)END

cb around 2balls distence from the pocket, and straight on the first ball. (green line is where the 1 would go if it was the only ball on the table.) ive tried the hitting right in between the 1 and 2 ball but its not working AT all for me :s maybe im doing something wrong. hope u could help me out

thx, and gl in the ITP

Break the same as in 9-ball...like this:
START(
%AN8O4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pg9Y8%WP3P1%Xg1Y5%YD1J7%ZN6O2
%eB5a6
)END

Or just break from near the center of the baulk line. Hit center of the front ball. Hit CB center.

 

[chefjeff]

Break the same as in 9-ball...like this:
START(
%AN8O4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pg9Y8%WP3P1%Xg1Y5%YD1J7%ZN6O2
%eB5a6
)END

Or just break from near the center of the baulk line. Hit center of the front ball. Hit CB center.

You can't break from there....you have to break from the IPT box which is one diamond in from each side rail and from the cushion to the headstring. Unless my info is wrong.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Solartje]

i used to open sometimes like this.

START(
%AN8O4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pg6W2%QA8[4%WP3P1%Xg1Y5%YD1J7
%ZN6O2%[P2O9%\s1Z8%eB5a6
)END

i dont seem to get a good spread of the balls opening like in 9 ball. the middle lower cluster always seem to hit the cusion, roll back to the pack and form a bad cluster for running out.

also my brake isnt alowed either...

in 8ball breaks do u think like in 9 ball?. (meaning do u know what ball is probably gonna pocket, and what ball u want up the table? (like 1 ball in 9ball) or anything like that? or is it just hit and spread as good as possible?

 

[Colin Colenso]

You can't break from there....you have to break from the IPT box which is one diamond in from each side rail and from the cushion to the headstring. Unless my info is wrong.

Jeff Livingston

I know that the IPT has a break box. But as he isn't playing under those rules, he may as well take advantage of the rail break option.

 

[chefjeff]

I know that the IPT has a break box. But as he isn't playing under those rules, he may as well take advantage of the rail break option.

OK, I just wanted to be sure you knew that. I was looking for my source of that info and I can't find it so I thought for a minute that I dreamed it or something.

Btw, that's why I posted about the side break option.

Jeff Livingston