14.1... Why is it not so popular?

[av84fun]

Rep For You

I've just got home after dinner, and this has been a great thread to read.

For me personally, watching 9-ball on ESPN just bores me after 5 mins (I've actually taken it out of my TiVo season passes now). I found I was just skipping through to the end to see who won. But I'll watch the final five hours of the World Snooker championship and be enthralled. So is snooker more interesting than 9-ball?

However, I would have no interest in watching a game of snooker in a club, but put two top Open/A+ players from Amsterdam Billiards in a race to 9, and I'll watch it the whole match and be enthralled. So is 9-ball more interesting than snooker?

This leads me to believe that it is the way 9-ball is packaged by ESPN that makes it a big snooze, and the way that snooker is packaged that makes it great TV. Perhaps, if they showed a 9-ball final LIVE, it may be interesting? Or perhaps make it a decent length match so the better player could win?

I certainly believe that playing all the games is essential to one's overall knowledge. I play in three Leagues, one 14.1, one 9-ball and one 8-ball. I've had a 3-pack in both the 9-ball and 8-ball leagues this season, but the crowning achievement for me would be to run a 50 in my 14.1 League. Came within ten balls (in the 40s) three times this season, hopefully next time. But running 50 is what I would remember from the entire season (all Leagues) because I know that would be pure skill. I can run out an open 9-ball or 8-ball table easily. Stringing racks is just the luck of the break. Running 50 ... now that takes skill.

I just gave you rep for playing in a 14.1 league and kudos to your pool hall for having one. (-:

I think you have hit on a couple of really central points re: watching 9 ball (or any other pool match on tv).

I FULLY agree that watching tape delay broadcasts where we already know the outcome diminishes our interest BY DEFAULT because we already know who won.

Suspense is a critical component to drama and without drama the programs are simply less compelling. So we watch only for academic purposes...to see the patterns...safeties...kicks etc. but MANY of those shots are edited out...as are some entire racks.

And even our academic interests are frustrated because, more often than not, the camera zooms in so close to the shooter that we can't even see their stroke.


Finally, I will take a minority view on the relative luck factor between 9 Ball and straight pool. I know of no empirical study that measures the frequency of "luck factors" in the two games but in 9 Ball, if luck was THAT much of a factor, then Allision could not have won more tournaments than all other WPBA pros combined over the past decade.

Mosconi, on the other hand "ONLY" ran 125-50 and out around 10% of the time. ("only" is in quotes because even that small percentage was WAY higher than any other player in history as far as I know.)

But rolling balls end up laying "lucky" plenty of times in all pool games...i.e. when you get into the rack, do you get an unlucky hook...do you end up with 2-3 potential break balls or none, forcing you to manufacture one...do you get a lock up safety or do you leave your opponent a good return safety? That latter factor can depend on 1/16 of an inch roll.

The fact is that the best who ever played often went 15/20/25 innings and certainly there were good rolls and bad wrapped up in there.

Finally, luck being luck, it tends to cancel out OVER TIME and AVOIDING the scenarios where luck becomes a factor is a SKILL that is often overlooked.

Regards,
Jim

 

[av84fun]

You make a great point with the grudge part. The problem is that there is no character attached to any players today. This is not the players fault, I am sure a lot of them are very interesting characters but in the TV world they do not push this at all. Compare pool to say poker and how it comes across on TV. Iguess Earl is the exception and he does seem to be the guy evrybady loves to watch. Sorry if I strayed too far off topic.

No, you stayed right ON topic...especially with your comments about Earl.

I just can't BELIEVE that so many get on this forum and whine and moan...ABOUT EARL WHINING AND MOANING!!!

If nothing else...he is a CHARACTER! Has no one ever heard of Minnesota Fats???? He made Willie so mad once that he had to be physically restrained....which event was THE reason why the infamous 1978 GRUDGE match ever got on TV in the first place.

And I've mentioned the tneeis bad boys (and girls) often on this forum but it doesn't seem to sink in to some heads. McEnroe did EVERYTHING Earl has ever done...AND MORE. Result? Half the world hated him (including me) and half the world loved him...BUT...THE WHOLE WORLD WATCHED HIM!!!

I don't mean to suggest that those who "don't get it" are dumb or are not entitled to their opinions. All I mean is that they "don't get it" and if there were TEN MORE EARLS, then this sport might have a tv audience of some significance.

Regards,
Jim

 

[MrLucky]

I struggle to watch 14.1 because you rarely see the back and forth defensive battles that you see in one pocket. I think one pocket is the most exciting pool game to watch on video. I have about four Accu-stats straight pool videos and I rarely make it past the first shooter's initial inning before I fall asleep. However, I can watch all of a one pocket match before old man sleep takes over me.

I agree that it is probably a great game and really helps your other games but to sit and watch one person run 100 while their opponent does not get to the table is no where near as exciting as watching Corey and Shane's race to 100 in 10-ball in my opinion.

-don

Don you have to look at straight pool similar to tennis if you aren't playing you don't realize the strategy and skills ! you just see the ball going back and forth! I began at 9 playing straight or at least learning straight pool and it will make you a better player in most other games !

 

[frankncali]

The game is too slow.

I agree and don't understand why others don't. Not just with 14.1 but with all games.

People want to watch excitement and competition. Bowling is about a slow as anyone really wants to watch. Thats just becuase a couple minutes later a guy gets a chance to tie.

What other sports or games are popular and just have one person doing the activity while the other watches. Theres no opponnet!!

We play pool becuase we love the game but many also play as a form of competition. Watching it we dont see the battle.

I would love to see the top guys play races playing the ghost. Each innning each player has a chance to tie the other. Gotta win by two.
I think it would be exciting to watch.

 

[raybo147]

No, you stayed right ON topic...especially with your comments about Earl.

I just can't BELIEVE that so many get on this forum and whine and moan...ABOUT EARL WHINING AND MOANING!!!

If nothing else...he is a CHARACTER! Has no one ever heard of Minnesota Fats???? He made Willie so mad once that he had to be physically restrained....which event was THE reason why the infamous 1978 GRUDGE match ever got on TV in the first place.

And I've mentioned the tneeis bad boys (and girls) often on this forum but it doesn't seem to sink in to some heads. McEnroe did EVERYTHING Earl has ever done...AND MORE. Result? Half the world hated him (including me) and half the world loved him...BUT...THE WHOLE WORLD WATCHED HIM!!!

I don't mean to suggest that those who "don't get it" are dumb or are not entitled to their opinions. All I mean is that they "don't get it" and if there were TEN MORE EARLS, then this sport might have a tv audience of some significance.

Regards,
Jim

Thanks that was the point I was trying to make. When I used to watch snooker as a kid, I knew who all the players were, I knew that Alex Higgins hated Steve Davis, I knew that Jimmy White dodged school to play snooker and that he hung out with Ronnie Wood. Pool already has characters like this in abundance (just go to Derby one time!) but it takes effort from the TV companies to bring this out. Pool is an exciting game. Say we got to watch Earl play Earthquake LIVE on a Friday night on ESPN. Say a camera crew followed one of the top pros on his journey through the US Open starting with the warm up tournament the week before and followed him before and after his matches. Golf/Snooker/Poker get coverage like this and by doing so they have created characters in their sports. Believe me there is nothing wrong with the game itself. It sucks to watch pool on ESPN and know there can't be a comeback because there is only 10 minutes left until sportscenter.

 

[poolmouse]

If you were playing $100 per game and $5 per ball in the score difference in a race to 100, (if the final score was 100 to 75, that makes $225 to the winner), I think many more would be playing or trying to play.
Play for $ per ball will liven it up a bit!
A race to 100 for $20 or $50 is boring.
I played a guy in Houston many years ago for $50 for a race to 125 and $2 per ball. I ran 88 right out of the box, he then got up and ran 125!!! I still think it was a great way to play straight pool.

I played Tom Walter one league match a couple years ago. He had to go to 175 and I had to go to 125. I hit him with a 74 ball run followed by a safety. He got up, told me I shot great. Then he plummeted me with a 124-and-out.

I was devastated but it wasn't long before I felt good again. I felt like I hit Mike Tyson with a left hook that shook him up, only to have him come back and floor me with his powerful uppercut.

I love Straight Pool. It unmasks your weaknesses and foces you to develop all around skills that you just can't get from 9ball.

Poolmouse

 

[curly]

Actually, you did..."But I realized that the game itself is not hard."

" Set up any single shot in your 100 ball run and I'll make it. "

Again, you seem not to understand all the dynamics of the game. That is NOT a flame...just an observation.

There are SO many examples of where your above comment is wrong. But just of few...one of the most critical shots in the game is the break shot where pocketing the ob is just PART of the deal. In addition to making the ob, you need to hit the rack with the correct speed, at the correct spot on the rack, with the correct english on the cb.

And as I said, reading clusters is a significant skill. Since you don't play the game much, I guarantee you that I could set up a lot of shots where there is a dead shot in the rack that you would never see. Refer to the GREAT text "99 Critical Shots in Pool" to see what I mean.

Finally, safety play is critical so it's not all about potting "easy shots." MANY of the all-time great straight pool shooters including Ponzi and Mosconi played matches to 125 that went WELL over 20 innings specifically because there weren't ANY easy shots at various points in the match so safety battles were necessary.

Again, I respect your dislike for the game. I'd rather watch grass grow than play or watch 1 hole. It's just that IMHO you don't understand how intricate 14.1 actually is.

Regards,
Jim

TAP, TAP, TAP! Jim, I agree totally with you. You nicely pointed out some of the requirements and considerations on how 14.1 is played. I notice that many of todays players really never had the opportunity to see the great straight pool players play 14.1 and therefore never appreciated the concept of patterns, shot selection and the ability to play safeties and not just potting balls. I've watched Mosconi, Mizerak, Sigel, Crane and many masters play straight with skills like that of a surgeon.

Curly

 

[Patrick53212]

14.1

Is this some kind of new programming code for Linux? Quite frankly, I prefer a full-rack of banks. It is just too easy to make ball after ball after ball in straight pool. I suppose that the 16th ball is the struggle for most....

 

[Patrick53212]

No, you stayed right ON topic...especially with your comments about Earl.

I just can't BELIEVE that so many get on this forum and whine and moan...ABOUT EARL WHINING AND MOANING!!!

If nothing else...he is a CHARACTER! Has no one ever heard of Minnesota Fats???? He made Willie so mad once that he had to be physically restrained....which event was THE reason why the infamous 1978 GRUDGE match ever got on TV in the first place.

And I've mentioned the tneeis bad boys (and girls) often on this forum but it doesn't seem to sink in to some heads. McEnroe did EVERYTHING Earl has ever done...AND MORE. Result? Half the world hated him (including me) and half the world loved him...BUT...THE WHOLE WORLD WATCHED HIM!!!

I don't mean to suggest that those who "don't get it" are dumb or are not entitled to their opinions. All I mean is that they "don't get it" and if there were TEN MORE EARLS, then this sport might have a tv audience of some significance.

Regards,
Jim

Quite frankly this is EXACTLY what makes me money in pool. I love to "play the player" and to use smart remarks and whining to keep someone playing against me. It is a tool. When I dont use this, I tend not to have the same winning percentage. I would think that the same is true for Earl and any other player that does the same.

 

[Pushout]

Is this some kind of new programming code for Linux? Quite frankly, I prefer a full-rack of banks. It is just too easy to make ball after ball after ball in straight pool. I suppose that the 16th ball is the struggle for most....

Sure it is....and you've run how many hundreds

 

[av84fun]

Thanks that was the point I was trying to make. When I used to watch snooker as a kid, I knew who all the players were, I knew that Alex Higgins hated Steve Davis, I knew that Jimmy White dodged school to play snooker and that he hung out with Ronnie Wood. Pool already has characters like this in abundance (just go to Derby one time!) but it takes effort from the TV companies to bring this out. Pool is an exciting game. Say we got to watch Earl play Earthquake LIVE on a Friday night on ESPN. Say a camera crew followed one of the top pros on his journey through the US Open starting with the warm up tournament the week before and followed him before and after his matches. Golf/Snooker/Poker get coverage like this and by doing so they have created characters in their sports. Believe me there is nothing wrong with the game itself. It sucks to watch pool on ESPN and know there can't be a comeback because there is only 10 minutes left until sportscenter.

EXACTLY! And if I was Earl's manager, I would ORDER him to break at least one cue and yell at the ref at least 5 times.

DRAMA....THEATER....TV RATINGS...THOUSANDS OF POSTS ON THE FORUMS!!!

(-:

 

[av84fun]

Is this some kind of new programming code for Linux? Quite frankly, I prefer a full-rack of banks. It is just too easy to make ball after ball after ball in straight pool. I suppose that the 16th ball is the struggle for most....

Welcome to the forum Patrick...and did I see you at this year's 14.1 World Championship in N.Y.?

Kidding. Just jerking your chain.

(-:

Regards,
Jim

 

[av84fun]

Quite frankly this is EXACTLY what makes me money in pool. I love to "play the player" and to use smart remarks and whining to keep someone playing against me. It is a tool. When I dont use this, I tend not to have the same winning percentage. I would think that the same is true for Earl and any other player that does the same.

Cool. Whatever works. I just hope you are big enough to get to your car without injury after the tournaments!!

(-:

 

[Blackjack]

Is this some kind of new programming code for Linux? Quite frankly, I prefer a full-rack of banks. It is just too easy to make ball after ball after ball in straight pool. I suppose that the 16th ball is the struggle for most....

Yes, I struggle with that 16th ball all the time. Perhaps, seeing you're so good at that easy straight pool game, maybe we can get together and play some so I can learn from you. Perhaps you can spot 50 balls to 100? I can wager whatever you'd like, then maybe we can play some banks after that.

Let me know. I'm eager to learn.

 

[powerlineman80]

So why is it so difficult?

I absolutely hate straight pool. I refuse to play it. The shots are too easy. The game is too slow. I have tried to play it and everytime I become very frustrated. But I realized that the game itself is not hard. What makes it hard is the length of the game. To win a game of 8-ball, you must make 8 balls. To win a game of 9-ball you must make 1 ball. To win a game of banks you must make 5 balls; one-pocket requires 8. Straight Pool? 50? 100? 150? Everybody talks about how 14.1 is the champions game. It's not. It's the endurance runner's game. So which is the better race, the 100 meter dash or the marathon? The question has no answer.

Please tell me this is a joke. Too easy? Please share with us your high run, and back it up by posting a video on here since its so 'easy'.

Is this some kind of new programming code for Linux? Quite frankly, I prefer a full-rack of banks. It is just too easy to make ball after ball after ball in straight pool. I suppose that the 16th ball is the struggle for most....

I'd like to see your high runs on video too. Maybe Efren can hang with you and your greatness (if he's LUCKY). We'll be waiting to see you play this 'too easy' game.

 

[av84fun]

Yes, I struggle with that 16th ball all the time. Perhaps, seeing you're so good at that easy straight pool game, maybe we can get together and play some so I can learn from you. Perhaps you can spot 50 balls to 100? I can wager whatever you'd like, then maybe we can play some banks after that.

Let me know. I'm eager to learn.

Oh STOP!!! ROFLMAO!

(-:

 

[raybo147]

EXACTLY! And if I was Earl's manager, I would ORDER him to break at least one cue and yell at the ref at least 5 times.

DRAMA....THEATER....TV RATINGS...THOUSANDS OF POSTS ON THE FORUMS!!!

(-:

And what do we get to watch The speed pool challenge. What the hell was that! I could almost hear Allen's voice cringe as he tried to make it sound interesting. Fair play to that guy that won, whoever he was.

 

[PKM]

And what do we get to watch The speed pool challenge. What the hell was that! I could almost hear Allen's voice cringe as he tried to make it sound interesting. Fair play to that guy that won, whoever he was.

I started watching speed pool, I couldn't make it very far, it was pretty ridiculous.

 

[softshot]

Thanks that was the point I was trying to make. When I used to watch snooker as a kid, I knew who all the players were, I knew that Alex Higgins hated Steve Davis, I knew that Jimmy White dodged school to play snooker and that he hung out with Ronnie Wood. Pool already has characters like this in abundance (just go to Derby one time!) but it takes effort from the TV companies to bring this out. Pool is an exciting game. Say we got to watch Earl play Earthquake LIVE on a Friday night on ESPN. Say a camera crew followed one of the top pros on his journey through the US Open starting with the warm up tournament the week before and followed him before and after his matches. Golf/Snooker/Poker get coverage like this and by doing so they have created characters in their sports. Believe me there is nothing wrong with the game itself. It sucks to watch pool on ESPN and know there can't be a comeback because there is only 10 minutes left until sportscenter.

The Key word in your post is "LIVE" thats everything ,not knowing whats going to happen is paramount. I am a HUGE football fan I have seen every single super bowl live (as it happened on TV) from the time I was 10 except two and both of those times I taped it and made it a priority to NOT find out who won.... but both times watching the tape without any knowledge of the outcome I was much less enthralled in the sport .. something inside me kept saying the game is already over there is nothing new here.

I would LOVE to see a big match as it happened. I missed out on the IPT challenge match due to work, though internet video still isn't where it should be. I want High Definition on a 46" I wanna see the fuzz on the felt.

I want multiple angles of each shot before hand I want to see if its a makable shot before he shoots it. I want a legitimate opportunity to try and read the table. The overhead shot is OK but none of us look at a shot from the top down perspective (Unless one of you has a strange harness in your basement to do fly by's of the table before each shot)

HD gives you much more bandwidth than analog you can squeeze huge amounts of information on a single channel. I want 6 cameras each with a perfect view from each pocket and another 2 or 3 with mobility to move and show everything. also the ability on my remote to choose the angle I want to see the shot from. I don't want to see the shot as though I was a spectator ... I want to see the shot as though I was shooting it... give me that LIVE and now you have something that people will watch..

14.1, 9 ball,8 ball doesn't matter there is an unknown quality to being live and the chance to see it a though it was you shooting would show just how hard some of those shots are.

 

[hobokenapa]

Finally, I will take a minority view on the relative luck factor between 9 Ball and straight pool. I know of no empirical study that measures the frequency of "luck factors" in the two games but in 9 Ball, if luck was THAT much of a factor, then Allision could not have won more tournaments than all other WPBA pros combined over the past decade.

What I meant was that for me personally, getting three racks in a row is down to the luck of the break. If I break and have three wide open tables, I've got a good chance of a 3-pack. It's nothing I can control. Running 50 balls, I have more control since I have to make 50 good shots, not rely on fluking one in every nine balls, and hoping for position on the next. That's why I like the soft break. It is using skill to make a ball and get position, not luck. A 10-pack utilising a soft break and getting position on the 1-ball each time would be far more impressive for me than a 10-pack with a hard break, and getting lucky position on the 1 ten times in a row. I know I'm in the minority here.. but I don't want to take this thread off 14.1!