14.1... Why is it not so popular?

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predator said:
Forget the TV ratings, let's see why most pool players don't like it.
The plain truth is that most of us players suck at 14.1 badly. The game reveals all of our weaknesses, we are unwilling to accept that our game is really that bad. Instead of learning how to play properly, we claim it is "slow and boring" and quickly return to daily routine of 9ball or 8ball.

good point I can break and run 3 racks of 9 ball on a diamond table sometimes and my hi run in 14.1 is around 8 balls, that damn game makes me miss any shot any time, i made 52 or 53 spot shots in a row with out missing in earily 93 i had a friend spot them up so it went fast i was nervious as hell on #50, i can pocket balls when i get in gear but in 14.1 my tranny freezes up and i cnat make a ball, but i love to sweat it.
 
Here's an idea to convert a few players...and this coming from a once hard core 9baller...if you want to play 9ball/10ball at a top level, start playing 14.1. Practicing 9ball will NEVER teach you new things!

Not to mention I can always tell a 1pocket player who doesn't play 14.1 ;)

Gerry
 
Gerry said:
Here's an idea to convert a few players...and this coming from a once hard core 9baller...if you want to play 9ball/10ball at a top level, start playing 14.1. Practicing 9ball will NEVER teach you new things!

Not to mention I can always tell a 1pocket player who doesn't play 14.1 ;)

Gerry

have you ever played at drexiline
 
q stick said:
have you ever played at drexiline

oh yea! Bobs place rules. Last time I was there was about 3 or 4 months ago with a friend of mine playing 1hole, and I had Bob do a tip for me. It's a little far from me (45min) and there are 4 other places closer, so I don't get there much.

Gerry
 
Gerry said:
oh yea! Bobs place rules. Last time I was there was about 3 or 4 months ago with a friend of mine playing 1hole, and I had Bob do a tip for me. It's a little far from me (45min) and there are 4 other places closer, so I don't get there much.

Gerry
he has a nice room
if you enjoy a good game of 14.1 maybe we can get together
i,m 10 min. from there and i play a ok game
been playing 50+ years im me
 
Scottster said:
Personally I think the main reason the game isn't a top game of choice nationwide is because when people see it played at a top level, high ball runs looks so easy, then when they try, and struggle to get through a rack, their ego comes into play and says, "Dont let anyone see you can't play that easy game, everyone is gonna laugh at you because you cant even run a rack."

Guess what? Those of you afraid of looking foolish. Here's your epiphany.. it not an easy game. It's a game of champions, it takes a champion to make the game look easy, and straight pool is one of the reasons straight pool players play other disciplines very well (especially 8-Ball).

Personally, the game drives me nuts. I haven't come close to my high run in close to a year. I'll admit it, it was a fluke (52). My knowledge of the game has increased but my performance has not in straight pool. The mid game is putting up a challenge for me and my runs have been ending in the mid 20's (in practice).

Although I am at a plateau in straight pool, I know for a fact that practicing the game has payed off dividends in other aspects of my game.
I did the "Q-skill" Drill, AKA the "Drivermaker Tournament", and was very surprised at how well I did. I am not gonna brag but I will say the results were definately a confidence booster.

I guess all I am saying is dont be afraid to play this game because you cant run a 100 balls. Play this game because you want to improve your pool game.

I know for a Fact of one world class player that if he sees 2 people practicing, and one is practicing 14.1 and struggling, and the other 9-ball whom is running out, who he is gonna be more willing to help with their game because he knows who the real student of the game is. The one playing Straight Pool.

The reason 14.1 is not so popular is because: it is not so easy.

14.1 is sorta like Mt. Everest. It just sits there and says, "Come and try me. Anytime you want, I'll be here. You don't even need another player. Just come on, rack 'em up and start running up the slope." What people most often discover is that the easy, slow, boring game is: really hard; can be played as fast or as slow as you want; and is anything but boring. Oh yes, they also discover that they can't run many balls.

A 14.1 run is a series of problems that you have to solve with knowledge and skills. There are spells during a run when you will see a series of simple problems that you're familiar with and can solve with even just mediocre skills. But as the run lengthens, you will inevitably see a wider variety of problems, and more and more esoteric ones that require more obscure knowledge and skills. It might be a long stop shot; a thin cut that still requires much cue ball control; bumping balls open without tying them up; creating break balls; or using balls up table for a break.

I've seen many players that have been playing for years and years and have never gotten past being 20 ball runners and never will. Either their basic skills are lacking and limit the variety of shots they can execute and/or their knowledge is deficient and limits the number and type of problems they can solve. They just don't understand the game well enough to ever pocket more than a couple dozen successive balls -- more through the grace of God -- than any other factor.

As to watching 14.1, if you don't play the game, you can't appreciate what you're seeing. What is fascinating about 14.1 is watching how a player takes the rack apart; how they solve the puzzle; how they create a layout that will lead them into the next rack. Each rack, the balls open up and there you have it: a unique challenge to confront. In your mind you can quickly decide how you would solve the puzzle and then watch how the player at the table solves the puzzle. Most often, you learn a thing or two. And if you say 14.1 is boring to watch, then I would say you are watching the wrong players.

Lastly, 14.1 is the greatest teacher the game has to offer. Not only will you learn how to execute a wide variety of shots with a wide variety of speeds and spins, you will learn all sorts of small cue ball movements that aren't demanded of you at other games. And here is the really crushing part that makes the game unpopular to our current culture of instant gratification: 14.1 will show you -- in glaring relief -- every single flaw in your game. Can't kill the cue ball? Can't draw it back in a perfectly straight line? Can't move it to the right or left a smidge or a scosch? Can't slow roll a straight in? Can't come out of a corner two rails with speed and spin? And on and on...

Most players don't what to hear that they suck. And that's what makes 14.1 "not so popular." It's only if you choose to listen to what 14.1 is trying to show you that you can appreciate its simple complexity and beauty.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
The reason 14.1 is not so popular is because: it is not so easy.

14.1 is sorta like Mt. Everest. It just sits there and says, "Come and try me. Anytime you want, I'll be here. You don't even need another player. Just come on, rack 'em up and start running up the slope." What people most often discover is that the easy, slow, boring game is: really hard; can be played as fast or as slow as you want; and is anything but boring. Oh yes, they also discover that they can't run many balls.

A 14.1 run is a series of problems that you have to solve with knowledge and skills. There are spells during a run when you will see a series of simple problems that you're familiar with and can solve with even just mediocre skills. But as the run lengthens, you will inevitably see a wider variety of problems, and more and more esoteric ones that require more obscure knowledge and skills. It might be a long stop shot; a thin cut that still requires much cue ball control; bumping balls open without tying them up; creating break balls; or using balls up table for a break.

I've seen many players that have been playing for years and years and have never gotten past being 20 ball runners and never will. Either their basic skills are lacking and limit the variety of shots they can execute and/or their knowledge is deficient and limits the number and type of problems they can solve. They just don't understand the game well enough to ever pocket more than a couple dozen successive balls -- more through the grace of God -- than any other factor.

As to watching 14.1, if you don't play the game, you can't appreciate what you're seeing. What is fascinating about 14.1 is watching how a player takes the rack apart; how they solve the puzzle; how they create a layout that will lead them into the next rack. Each rack, the balls open up and there you have it: a unique challenge to confront. In your mind you can quickly decide how you would solve the puzzle and then watch how the player at the table solves the puzzle. Most often, you learn a thing or two. And if you say 14.1 is boring to watch, then I would say you are watching the wrong players.

Lastly, 14.1 is the greatest teacher the game has to offer. Not only will you learn how to execute a wide variety of shots with a wide variety of speeds and spins, you will learn all sorts of small cue ball movements that aren't demanded of you at other games. And here is the really crushing part that makes the game unpopular to our current culture of instant gratification: 14.1 will show you -- in glaring relief -- every single flaw in your game. Can't kill the cue ball? Can't draw it back in a perfectly straight line? Can't move it to the right or left a smidge or a scosch? Can't slow roll a straight in? Can't come out of a corner two rails with speed and spin? And on and on...

Most players don't what to hear that they suck. And that's what makes 14.1 "not so popular." It's only if you choose to listen to what 14.1 is trying to show you that you can appreciate its simple complexity and beauty.

Lou Figueroa

Very well put Lou, and in that accurate perspective of the game's lack of popularity, lies the bigger core problem of the younger generation's lack of desire to work at anything.

That has all been replaced with head rattling music and smashing of 9 ball racks. Sad, but as this phenomenon skips past a generation or two, straight pool is doomed to never really be known again.
 
lfigueroa said:
The reason 14.1 is not so popular is because: it is not so easy.

14.1 is sorta like Mt. Everest. It just sits there and says, "Come and try me. Anytime you want, I'll be here. You don't even need another player. Just come on, rack 'em up and start running up the slope." What people most often discover is that the easy, slow, boring game is: really hard; can be played as fast or as slow as you want; and is anything but boring. Oh yes, they also discover that they can't run many balls.

A 14.1 run is a series of problems that you have to solve with knowledge and skills. There are spells during a run when you will see a series of simple problems that you're familiar with and can solve with even just mediocre skills. But as the run lengthens, you will inevitably see a wider variety of problems, and more and more esoteric ones that require more obscure knowledge and skills. It might be a long stop shot; a thin cut that still requires much cue ball control; bumping balls open without tying them up; creating break balls; or using balls up table for a break.

I've seen many players that have been playing for years and years and have never gotten past being 20 ball runners and never will. Either their basic skills are lacking and limit the variety of shots they can execute and/or their knowledge is deficient and limits the number and type of problems they can solve. They just don't understand the game well enough to ever pocket more than a couple dozen successive balls -- more through the grace of God -- than any other factor.

As to watching 14.1, if you don't play the game, you can't appreciate what you're seeing. What is fascinating about 14.1 is watching how a player takes the rack apart; how they solve the puzzle; how they create a layout that will lead them into the next rack. Each rack, the balls open up and there you have it: a unique challenge to confront. In your mind you can quickly decide how you would solve the puzzle and then watch how the player at the table solves the puzzle. Most often, you learn a thing or two. And if you say 14.1 is boring to watch, then I would say you are watching the wrong players.

Lastly, 14.1 is the greatest teacher the game has to offer. Not only will you learn how to execute a wide variety of shots with a wide variety of speeds and spins, you will learn all sorts of small cue ball movements that aren't demanded of you at other games. And here is the really crushing part that makes the game unpopular to our current culture of instant gratification: 14.1 will show you -- in glaring relief -- every single flaw in your game. Can't kill the cue ball? Can't draw it back in a perfectly straight line? Can't move it to the right or left a smidge or a scosch? Can't slow roll a straight in? Can't come out of a corner two rails with speed and spin? And on and on...

Most players don't what to hear that they suck. And that's what makes 14.1 "not so popular." It's only if you choose to listen to what 14.1 is trying to show you that you can appreciate its simple complexity and beauty.

Lou Figueroa


Well said! That is by far the best post I've read in a very long time!
 
So why is it so difficult?

I absolutely hate straight pool. I refuse to play it. The shots are too easy. The game is too slow. I have tried to play it and everytime I become very frustrated. But I realized that the game itself is not hard. What makes it hard is the length of the game. To win a game of 8-ball, you must make 8 balls. To win a game of 9-ball you must make 1 ball. To win a game of banks you must make 5 balls; one-pocket requires 8. Straight Pool? 50? 100? 150? Everybody talks about how 14.1 is the champions game. It's not. It's the endurance runner's game. So which is the better race, the 100 meter dash or the marathon? The question has no answer.
 
Huh?

Drew said:
So why is it so difficult?

I absolutely hate straight pool. I refuse to play it. The shots are too easy. The game is too slow. I have tried to play it and everytime I become very frustrated. But I realized that the game itself is not hard. What makes it hard is the length of the game. To win a game of 8-ball, you must make 8 balls. To win a game of 9-ball you must make 1 ball. To win a game of banks you must make 5 balls; one-pocket requires 8. Straight Pool? 50? 100? 150? Everybody talks about how 14.1 is the champions game. It's not. It's the endurance runner's game. So which is the better race, the 100 meter dash or the marathon? The question has no answer.[/Q


This might be the DUMBEST F...ING post i've ever read, obviously you've never run a 100 balls to say such an ignorant thing! if you think string rack after rack in straight pool is easy then you should quit your job and go on the road, cause you're too good for the rest of us!
 
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Drew said:
So why is it so difficult?

I absolutely hate straight pool. I refuse to play it. The shots are too easy. The game is too slow. I have tried to play it and everytime I become very frustrated. But I realized that the game itself is not hard. What makes it hard is the length of the game. To win a game of 8-ball, you must make 8 balls. To win a game of 9-ball you must make 1 ball. To win a game of banks you must make 5 balls; one-pocket requires 8. Straight Pool? 50? 100? 150? Everybody talks about how 14.1 is the champions game. It's not. It's the endurance runner's game. So which is the better race, the 100 meter dash or the marathon? The question has no answer.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion about the game. No game appeals to everyone.

But I think that your notion that "the game itself is not hard" and "the shots are too easy" demonstrates a lack of understanding of the game.

I am not flaming you. There are plenty of games that don't appeal to me and that I am sure I don't understand...1 pocket for example.

I won't conduct a seminar on 14.1 because I'm sure you're not interested and I don't have the skill to do so but....managing the play after the initial safety break requires a high level of skill.

Play position for the eventual break shot requires tremendous skill and often there IS no break shot as the balls lay...you sometimes have to create one.

Reading clusters is a required and highly advanced skill.

Safety play is essential to the game and there is very little about safety play that is easy.

But bottom line...if it is easy, then just set up a break shot, fire away and run 60-70 balls. At 5 minutes per rack (since all the shots are so easy) that run will only take around a half hour, so no endurance test there.

Let me just reiterate that your dislike of the game is totally fine with me.

Regards,
Jim
 
Always

This arguement always comes up in the pool room, which game is the hardest. The answer is none. If you think 14.1 is easy because of easy shots, try to run 50. Some think 1 pocket is easy because all you do is bunt balls around, but try to do that to a good one pocket player and see how you are punished over and over. Every game played at its top level requires different skill sets. Each game requires fine tuning of different aspects of the game. Most players see 9ball as tough because it is the game in which pure ball pocketing remains the highest skill necessary to play that game. True players of the game should see value in every aspect of the game and therefore value each discipline equally for the skills necessary to play them well.

If anyone thinks straight pool is boring please watch Oliver Ortman from Blackjacks post or Thorsten Hohman on propool video deliver 100+ runs. This is straight pool at it finest and I gaurantee that all of the shots in these runs are not easy.

By the way, the guy usually arguing the 9 ball is the toughest game is the guy that never plays safe and fires wildly at every ball getting more excitement out of fluked 9 balls then well executed runouts.
 
av84fun said:
You certainly are entitled to your opinion about the game. No game appeals to everyone.

But I think that your notion that "the game itself is not hard" and "the shots are too easy" demonstrates a lack of understanding of the game.

I am not flaming you. There are plenty of games that don't appeal to me and that I am sure I don't understand...1 pocket for example.

I won't conduct a seminar on 14.1 because I'm sure you're not interested and I don't have the skill to do so but....managing the play after the initial safety break requires a high level of skill.

Play position for the eventual break shot requires tremendous skill and often there IS no break shot as the balls lay...you sometimes have to create one.

Reading clusters is a required and highly advanced skill.

Safety play is essential to the game and there is very little about safety play that is easy.

But bottom line...if it is easy, then just set up a break shot, fire away and run 60-70 balls. At 5 minutes per rack (since all the shots are so easy) that run will only take around a half hour, so no endurance test there.

Let me just reiterate that your dislike of the game is totally fine with me.

Regards,
Jim

You guys didn't understand what I meant. I never said the game was easy. All the way around it's very tough. I said the shots were easy. Set up any single shot in your 100 ball run and I'll make it. What makes the game hard is being able to shoot and make 100 easy shots in a row. I'll be the first one to tell you that I cannot run 70 balls. I can't even run 20. But I can string several 9-ball racks together. I've made more consecutive balls playing 9-ball than I have playing straight pool. Straight pool requires a certain kind of patience that I do not have.

The second part of the game that is very difficult is the ever changing table. The table changes almost every shot. So I have to re-evaluate the pattern after every shot. This isn't easy. I'd rather the balls stay still and I work around them. And there's something very beautiful about running out a table without moving any of the balls.
 
Drew said:
You guys didn't understand what I meant. I never said the game was easy.

Actually, you did..."But I realized that the game itself is not hard."

" Set up any single shot in your 100 ball run and I'll make it. "

Again, you seem not to understand all the dynamics of the game. That is NOT a flame...just an observation.

There are SO many examples of where your above comment is wrong. But just of few...one of the most critical shots in the game is the break shot where pocketing the ob is just PART of the deal. In addition to making the ob, you need to hit the rack with the correct speed, at the correct spot on the rack, with the correct english on the cb.

And as I said, reading clusters is a significant skill. Since you don't play the game much, I guarantee you that I could set up a lot of shots where there is a dead shot in the rack that you would never see. Refer to the GREAT text "99 Critical Shots in Pool" to see what I mean.

Finally, safety play is critical so it's not all about potting "easy shots." MANY of the all-time great straight pool shooters including Ponzi and Mosconi played matches to 125 that went WELL over 20 innings specifically because there weren't ANY easy shots at various points in the match so safety battles were necessary.

Again, I respect your dislike for the game. I'd rather watch grass grow than play or watch 1 hole. It's just that IMHO you don't understand how intricate 14.1 actually is.

Regards,
Jim
 
Drew said:
To win a game of 9-ball you must make 1 ball.

Yet another perfect example as to why I mention that 9ball is a lazy man's game, and the same for 10Ball as it is won in the exact same fashion as 9Ball.

It's no wonder that the Americans aren't as dominant in pool anymore, because the rest of the world, are playing the cuesports that most of the americans have become too lazy to be bothered to play, and therefore the overall standard of play as an all round player is sinking into the quicksand, whilst the rest of the world, like Asia and Europe are producing players that can run 200/300 balls in straight pool, as well as being able to move the rock with the best of them at 9Ball or pretty much any other discipline :)

Willie
 
TheWizard said:
Yet another perfect example as to why I mention that 9ball is a lazy man's game, and the same for 10Ball as it is won in the exact same fashion as 9Ball.

It's no wonder that the Americans aren't as dominant in pool anymore, because the rest of the world, are playing the cuesports that most of the americans have become too lazy to be bothered to play, and therefore the overall standard of play as an all round player is sinking into the quicksand, whilst the rest of the world, like Asia and Europe are producing players that can run 200/300 balls in straight pool, as well as being able to move the rock with the best of them at 9Ball or pretty much any other discipline :)

Willie

I hear what you are saying Willie but the Mosconi Cup results don't bear out that thesis. In the past 10 years, Europe has lost 8 times, won twice and tied once.

Having said that, I have no clue how actively 14.1 is played by the U.S. players who have been members of the team during that time. Archer certainly has played the game plenty but I just don't know about the others.

Seems to me that to make the case that playing 14.1 is beneficial to 9 Ball skills, we would have to know how actively or inactively the Mosconi Team members play 14.1..

Regards,
jim
 
I've just got home after dinner, and this has been a great thread to read.

For me personally, watching 9-ball on ESPN just bores me after 5 mins (I've actually taken it out of my TiVo season passes now). I found I was just skipping through to the end to see who won. But I'll watch the final five hours of the World Snooker championship and be enthralled. So is snooker more interesting than 9-ball?

However, I would have no interest in watching a game of snooker in a club, but put two top Open/A+ players from Amsterdam Billiards in a race to 9, and I'll watch it the whole match and be enthralled. So is 9-ball more interesting than snooker?

This leads me to believe that it is the way 9-ball is packaged by ESPN that makes it a big snooze, and the way that snooker is packaged that makes it great TV. Perhaps, if they showed a 9-ball final LIVE, it may be interesting? Or perhaps make it a decent length match so the better player could win?

I certainly believe that playing all the games is essential to one's overall knowledge. I play in three Leagues, one 14.1, one 9-ball and one 8-ball. I've had a 3-pack in both the 9-ball and 8-ball leagues this season, but the crowning achievement for me would be to run a 50 in my 14.1 League. Came within ten balls (in the 40s) three times this season, hopefully next time. But running 50 is what I would remember from the entire season (all Leagues) because I know that would be pure skill. I can run out an open 9-ball or 8-ball table easily. Stringing racks is just the luck of the break. Running 50 ... now that takes skill.
 
av84fun said:
"Slow" is in the eye of the beholder. I'm not sure whether a 125 straight pool match would take any longer than, say, a race to 11 in 9 ball. But in 9, in a race to 13, each rack = 1/13th of the total score for each player whereas each ball pockected is only 1/125th of the total score...so it just SEEMS longer.

We live in a short attention span world. In the old days, there might have been 4 or 4 "cuts" in a 30 second tv commercial. Now there are a dozen or more.

But the poster who said that the mass audience got bored watching all those short little shots in 14.1 has it right. There is only a TINY number of people in the civilized world who have any idea how hard it is to select the correct route, play precise shape and read clusters well enought to be a champion 14.1 player.

Even the seemingly faster paced game of 9 Ball cannot achieve anything but small viewership in the U.S. and as the other poster pointed out, pool mathes never got a huge audience even in its prime...mostly because its prime preceded the proliferation of tv to the masses.

The fact is that the infamous Mosconi/Fats challenge match in 1978 was the highest rated pool tv program of all time and that was at a point when both those players were WAY past their primes.

So people didn't tune in to see championship pool played...they tuned in to see a GRUDGE match and the THEATER that promosed. Roone Arlidge said it all when he was asked why Wide World of Sports was the KING of sports programming when he said..."Show business."

It seems to me that those two words are entirely lost on the pool tournament world with such anti-theater factors such as soft breaking from tapped racks...winner breaks that can leave a world champion in his seat for nearly the entire "match"...banning of jump cues...and "shushing" of the audience cheers even between shots.

Those and other such things seem designed to make tv pool tournaments extinct.

Regards,
Jim
You make a great point with the grudge part. The problem is that there is no character attached to any players today. This is not the players fault, I am sure a lot of them are very interesting characters but in the TV world they do not push this at all. Compare pool to say poker and how it comes across on TV. I guess Earl is the exception and he does seem to be the guy everybody loves to watch. Sorry if I strayed too far off topic.
 
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